B&S Fast Valve and Key Oil

[Jay Bertolet]

Hey all,

I have a student who just purchased a MW Thor CC (very nice horn!) and wants to know about the oil WW&BW included with the tuba. Just as the subject line reads, this valve oil is in a small bottle and is called Fast Valve and Key Oil. The B&S logo is also on the label. We need to know if this is a petroleum or synthetic product. I can find no indication on the bottle and my student is calling WW&BW tomorrow. Anyone familiar with this brand of oil? I am not and my google search turned up nothing. Thanks in advance for any info you can provide!

[Roger Lewis]

It is a petroleum based oil and not bad for what it is. If you wanted more you would probably need to contact Buffet to get it. The factory ships it with all B&S and Meinl Weston tubas. WWBW will have no clue as to what it is so don't waste your time with them on this question.

Just my experience.
Roger

[Jay Bertolet]

Thanks very much for the info guys, that is exactly what I was looking for. My student isn't allergic to the stuff, just wants to use a good synthetic oil and didn't want to mix that with a petroleum based lubricant if that is the type the B&S oil is. Now he can degrease the horn first, then switch to what he wants to use.

This Thor is pretty damn nice. Plays really well in tune, fit and finish are flawless, and the sound is very nice. My student is still recovering from his last purchase of an M&M mess, so the Thor is all the more a real joy for him.

[joh_tuba]

Bloke *might* be right... I'm sure his personal positive experience trumps any contrary experiences anyone else has put forth.
I agree 100% that most valve issues are more related to cleaning than any sort of oil BUT I have seen cases where a valve oil was making a bad problem worse. It has happened.
I've used the stuff B&S ships with the horns. It works nicely.

TWO PARTS!:
1) My personal experience suggests that while mixing might not be problematic there *are* issues with long term exclusive use of petroleum oils.
a) Most of them smell terrible. I personally find the smell extremely off-putting. If I have a choice to not smell petroleum while playing I choose it.
b) Petroleum lubes evaporate quickly and leave behind a crunchy residue that requires a chem clean to remove. Also, any time the oil has evaporated the brass becomes exposed to the environment and develops calcification and green funk.

IN CONTRAST, Hetman doesn't smell, evaporates slowly, and never goes crunchy. Instead it will begin to form a yellow slimy layer that can make your valves feel a bit slow. Wiping the valves off fixes the problem lickity split. It's just better.

2) I've yet to see a brand new straight off the boat tuba that wasn't immediately improved by a proper cleaning. The valves are new and still have super tight tolerance and there are heavy grease residues in those horns that frequently float into the valves at inopportune moments. A proper cleaning can speed up the 'break in' process in that regard. ALSO, nearly every tuba that ships has improper valve alignment... sometimes criminally so... yes even the big names. Someone at the end of the line tosses whatever they have in a box on the horn and sends it out the door.. Very few horns require the same thickness on the up and down stroke yet many ship with the same size felt on both. ALSO ALSO, the trend now is silicone bumpers that bounce and spongy bits that remove any tactile sense of where the top and bottom of the valve stroke is. In addition, at least one manufacturer ships a horn with springs too short for the casing. Having a detail oriented tech go through your new baby and fixing those things will make a tangible improvement in your horn.

Sooo.. my advice, get it professionally cleaned and 'tuned up' just because that's what the horn probably needs anyhow and while there switch to Hetman.

[tofu]

I've used Hetmans and it worked well. But - I'd get that yellow build up and it wasn't always easy to get off the valves. If in a pinch I had to use something else it would cause sticky valves. Ever since Alan Baer published his own self mix (and if a guy who plays for one of the premier orchestras of the world relies on lamp oil/Mobil 1 for his livelihood so can I) I've done that for all my horns - tweaking it for each horn. It is very cheap and plentiful. I like to flood the valves. I have never understood the philosophy of "I oil my horn once a year and am proud of it". At any rehearsal/concert there is always time to oil the valves. It takes so little time for such cheap easy protection. Even a super time-efficient guy like Bloke (who doesn't have leather gig bags to save the time (10 minutes) of polishing the leather) regularly oils his valves.

[TubaRay]

more costly (such as the astonishing play-themselves blokepieces) mouthpieces in with new instruments,

This causes me to question whether or not I received a DEFECTIVE Blokepiece. Although I really like both of mine, they simply won't "play-themselves."

[tofu]

Last time I spoke with AB, and it's been a couple of years, he said he was using Blue Juice on his piston valves. That's my first choice as well as it allows me to be the most lazy and get the best results.

FWIW

Hi All,
here is a good mix that will save some bread and time..
For years I've used nothing but lamp oil.....as valve oil.
I tend to use the stuff that says Ultra Pure. Lamplight Farms brand is very common. I've used both with and without paraffin. The paraffin is not going to build up on the valves...
But, if you feel better not using wax, there is the Ultra Pure without. I put it on the valve and move it in and out round and round to cover it. THEN. Mobil 1 5W30. This is a synthetic oil for cars. 1... one.... 1.... one.. drop per valve.
that's one drop!!! unless you like slow valves, or work all the time in the sun. Move the valve in the same fashion and then button it up. What this does is to increase the surface tension on the oil. the valve rides on the oil, or moisture that's on the valve, much like hydroplaning. With most valves there are small imperfections or high spots that will break the surface tension of the oil. By increasing the viscosity of the oil you help retain the riding surface and allow the valve to move freely.
I put the Mobil 1 in and old valve oil bottle or bottle with a needle. BTW, this works great in warm weather climates. Remember, in the hot sun valve oil is gone in about 20 minutes. Would you run you car without oil?
good luck,
Alan Baer

This was from 2007 so he has apparently switched. I'd be curious as to why, but this has worked for me. I'd don't know him so perhaps if he is reading he can chime in.

[tofu]

I ride my horses hard, and put 'em away wet. I don't wipe 'em down, I don't talk to 'em, and - no - I don't polish their saddles...or spend more to buy their saddles than their horseflesh is worth...

heavily tarnished treasure.JPG

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Hold on there partner...

This is the same flatulence sounding machine you did offer on these here pages a few years ago - Right? Now I'm a cheap sob like you so I don't pay retail -BUT- isn't a new leather Cronkite bag something like $550???

' still have a 5V Buescher CC (satin silver/gold) offered for $65K...

....Cerveny helicon bag included

So that previously offered price of 65K must have been in Pakistani Rupee's. But that is still above the $550 leather bag price by roughly $100 so I'm assuming you were inflating that to achieve more ADP. Since it's worth less than the horseflesh would cost new - I'll take it off your hands for $500 and you can keep the non-leather Cerveny bag - I'll buy it the nice leather bag it deserves

[tofu]

I'll buy it the nice leather bag it deserves

...but renting the PLAYER it deserves will cost MUCH more.

You're right and sadly he is no longer with us.

[tofu]

I'm sure Mr. Jaffe had an exquisite leather bag for that instrument, as does his son - who know owns that instrument.

Of course, just as much as I'm sure that he had it pimped out with over the top bling.