Marching with a Sousaphone

[Radar]

Well as a life long Euphonium player (I'm 50 something years old) who recently picked up Tuba as a second instrument for our fire department band I marched my first parade with Sousaphone yesterday. It wasn't tremendously hard on me, and I think it will be a relatively easy adjustment for me. I do have a little bit of lower back discomfort on my right side from compensating for all of the weight of the horn being on the left shoulder. Do any of you who march or play standing with a sousaphone have any strengthening exercises you do for your lower back to prepare yourself for the marching season.

Thanks in advance, for any suggestions or input.

Ray

[Outawind]

I've played in an active-marching firemen's band for more than 40 years and carried a full-brass King Sousaphone for the latter half of that period. The root cause may not be muscular. If you're getting lower back pain, it may be because you're leaning forward some to get to the mouthpiece. Align the neck / rotate the horn to get the mouthpiece to come to you and stand as erect as possible.

Also, the band I play in always has at least 16 bars of "street-beat" between marches, and I always flip the horn to my right shoulder in these periods and when we're stopped and not playing. I can get the Sousaphone back on my left shoulder within the time frame of a roll-off.

I'm sure that there are more knowledgeable people that may have an opinion. but that's my input. Good luck!

[Karl H.]

Various abdominal exercises (curl-ups, sit-ups, planks, etc.) will greatly help stabilize your lower back; really your whole body when dealing with the added unbalanced weight of a sousaphone. Supportive shoes will help and, as a last resort (or first resort) consider a back brace (kidney belt, if you're into motocross).

Karl "that's why they make 'em outta plastic" H.

[ken k]

outawind had a good point. be sure you are standing up straight and not compensating in any way for the weight of the horn or to reach the mouthpiece.

ken k

[Radar]

Thanks for the input, you may be onto something regarding leaning forward to get to the mouthpiece. The Sousaphone I'm playing belongs to the Fire department and has no Manufacturer's name or other markings on it, and the Bits I have now weren't with the horn originally. I have been having trouble finding a set of bits, or combination of position of the bits and lead pipe that allow me to reach the mouth piece comfortably, and I do feel like I'm leaning into it a little. I've actually got my eyes open for a decent condition used fiberglass instrument. There is another problem with this Sousaphone in that it feels smaller than those of my band mates that I've tried on, and the valve tubing pushes into my ribs.

[Dan Schultz]

..... The Sousaphone I'm playing belongs to the Fire department and has no Manufacturer's name or other markings on it, and the Bits I have now weren't with the horn originally. I have been having trouble finding a set of bits, or combination of position of the bits and lead pipe that allow me to reach the mouth piece comfortably, and I do feel like I'm leaning into it a little. I've actually got my eyes open for a decent condition used fiberglass instrument. There is another problem with this Sousaphone in that it feels smaller than those of my band mates that I've tried on, and the valve tubing pushes into my ribs.

Can you post an image of the sousa?

If you are looking for a descent fiberglass sousa... a good choice might be a Selmer 'Signet'.

[swillafew]

I played three parades in Chicago with my F tuba on a guitar strap. You might want to rethink the whole issue.

[bearphonium]

Core strengthening and walking on a treadmill with the sousy are my "pre-season conditioning" regimen. I am marching with a brass sousy for the first time this season, and am noting that the balance is different than a fiberglass instrument. Fit is, indeed, important.

[Radar]

Dan,
Here are some pictures of the instrument in question:

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[NCSUSousa]

Re: Strengthening exercises to prepare for Marching Sousaphone

I have 3 suggestions
1 - If you have access to a weight room, start doing squats. Get someone there to show you proper form so you don't hurt your back if you haven't done them before. Squats are the absolute best exercise for strengthening your core and getting through a marching season. Proper form is FAR more important than the amount of weight on the bar in terms of results.
2 - Start playing basketball at the nearest blacktop or church gym. You'll build your core and your endurance at the same time.
3 - (Weight room again) Bench press will help to build your shoulders so that the added weight doesn't contribute to a shoulder injury. Targeted exercises for the upper shoulder and upper back (using the cable and pulley machine) will also help, but do NOT do them the day before a performance. It's no fun putting a 30 lb instrument on a sore muscle.

[David Richoux]

Dan,
Here are some pictures of the instrument in question:

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Are you using mouthpiece bits or going directly into the gooseneck? Having a bit (or two if that is how the horn was designed) will change the balance and position of the whole horn (hopefully for the better!)

In the California Repercussions we march, depending on the gig and we will also then play standing performances that might be 45 to 60 minutes long per set. The Sousaphone section usually remembers to do warm-up stretches (if there is time before the parade/performance) and we also do a lot of choreographed horn moves during many songs. We have gotten used to it, but after a long day it still hurts some...

[opus37]

So, do you use a pad of some sort to minimize the stress/pain on your shoulder?

[David Richoux]

So, do you use a pad of some sort to minimize the stress/pain on your shoulder?

I sure do! Both my 4v Conn (1929ish) and 3v Reynolds plastic have shoulder pad (and bottom bow protector.)

[aqualung]

Learn to march.

Proper marching technique ensures that there is nothing but forward movement above the waist. Lacking this, that souzie is going to bounce and hammer on your shoulder.

The concept of smooth movement is the same as that utilized by pageant girls on the runway, and waitresses with fully-loaded trays of expensive dinners. The exaggerated roll step used by contemporary competitive marching groups is unnecessary for parade work. A smooth glide step is all that is needed.

Check yourself out: practice marching at home, holding a very full glass of water in front of you and try not to spill.

[Radar]

Learn to march.

Proper marching technique ensures that there is nothing but forward movement above the waist. Lacking this, that souzie is going to bounce and hammer on your shoulder.

The concept of smooth movement is the same as that utilized by pageant girls on the runway, and waitresses with fully-loaded trays of expensive dinners. The exaggerated roll step used by contemporary competitive marching groups is unnecessary for parade work. A smooth glide step is all that is needed.

Check yourself out: practice marching at home, holding a very full glass of water in front of you and try not to spill.

No offense taken but I'm a retired Army Bandsman. I've marched in both Junior and Senior Drum corps prior to that, and was taught to march by some of the best experts in the field, I know how to march without bouncing with the proper glide. So I don't think it's my marching technique that's the problem, I've been marching for over 40 years now carrying and playing Euphonium or Trombone. I don't have a problem with the horn bouncing on my shoulder, I don't have a problem with shoulder pain at all. My problem was a mild discomfort (muscle strain) in my lower back on the right side.

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions, I've definitely got a few good ideas both for Strengthening my core, and for working on better mouthpiece placement so I don't feel like I'm leaning forward.

[Lee Stofer]

Radar,
The sousaphone is a standard King BBb. You need a pair of bits for it, which are available at a lot of places. As my teacher in college told me when I switched from euphonium to tuba, "Do not go to the mouthpiece. Make the mouthpiece come to you".

There is one more possibility, too. The sousa in the photo seems to have the "new-style" gooseneck, which is shorter, but extends a little farther back towards the player. After you try playing it with a pair of King bits, if it seems that the fit would be better if the neck came up higher but not back quite as much, then you would want to get the "old-style" King sousa neck, also widely available, and try it out.

You mentioned the King sousa opening for the player seeming smaller than the other sousaphones owned by your group? I have played King sousaphones successfully in numerous Army Bands, but the problem was that the tubing invariably left a bruise on my ribcage. That is one of the prime reasons I prefer playing a Conn, or some other make of sousaphone. Maybe you can find a really skinny guy in the section and trade with him ;^)

[Radar]

Lee, that's extremely useful information thanks for identifying the instrument for me. Should definitely help with getting the right bits, and gooseneck.

Thanks!!
Ray

[J.c. Sherman]

..... The Sousaphone I'm playing belongs to the Fire department and has no Manufacturer's name or other markings on it, and the Bits I have now weren't with the horn originally. I have been having trouble finding a set of bits, or combination of position of the bits and lead pipe that allow me to reach the mouth piece comfortably, and I do feel like I'm leaning into it a little. I've actually got my eyes open for a decent condition used fiberglass instrument. There is another problem with this Sousaphone in that it feels smaller than those of my band mates that I've tried on, and the valve tubing pushes into my ribs.

Can you post an image of the sousa?

If you are looking for a decent fiberglass sousa... a good choice might be a Selmer 'Signet'.

This is the second time I've heard of these referenced recently; what's different/better about them?

I found the carcase of one at my shop... wondering if I should repair it now...

[NCSUSousa]

My problem was a mild discomfort (muscle strain) in my lower back on the right side.

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions, I've definitely got a few good ideas both for Strengthening my core, and for working on better mouthpiece placement so I don't feel like I'm leaning forward.

One more note about core strength:
Something I've learned (through both college classes health and in recreational weight lifting) is that it's almost impossible to directly strengthen the lower back because your spine isn't designed to flex in a rearward direction. This is why serious lifters will wear their back support belt throughout a workout session that addresses the back.
This is also why it takes a long time to recover from back injuries - spinal or muscular.
The advice that all of my teachers and trainers gave is to focus on the adjacent core muscle groups. Working those muscle groups helps to support the smaller individual muscles and make the whole much stronger than the sum of the parts.

[Dan Schultz]

.... If you are looking for a decent fiberglass sousa... a good choice might be a Selmer 'Signet'.

This is the second time I've heard of these referenced recently; what's different/better about them?

I found the carcase of one at my shop... wondering if I should repair it now...

JC... I stumbled across two Selmer 'Signet' fiberglass sousaphones at a school auction several years ago and bought them for little of nothing. They turned out to be good horns with very little work. They both play well. I painted one red, white, and blue and the other is simply white. I decorate the white one for Christmas stuff.

I've played fiberglass Kings, Reynolds, Olds, and Conn sousas and I think these are the better players with the exception of one Reynolds that I let 'get away'.

The good thing is that the 'Signets' tend to go for cheap. The bad thing is that parts are not common and not available.