Walking the Tuba, free lesson

[Todd S. Malicoate]

On the sax list I asked this question (to several hundred teachers/band directors): "How many high school students out there can play the major scales in all 12 keys?" The answer was "none".

They're just wrong. I personally know at least a dozen locally, and two of them are saxophone players. They study with the local college professor and I accompany them at contests. They can not only play all 12 major scales, they can do all forms of minors as well and scales in thirds from the bottom note on their instrument to the very top.

How can they do this? Their teacher emphasizes it, and they practice. A lot. Most of them also attend their studio teacher's warm-up "routine" at 7:30 each morning during the school year. Those routines include all the major scales.

And another thing, comping on the tuba (like me comping on the banjo) is a skill that most can learn without busting their backside's. I put those videos out there so I won't have to train the next tuba player. I'm lazy.

While I appreciate the videos, you acknowledge on them that a player is going to have to know some theory to be able to perform this skill "on the fly." Isn't that what we're all saying, too?

Your examples are among the most simple of changes in the most simple of keys. What's a guy going to do when he's asked to play "Giant Steps" on a gig, for example?

[Todd S. Malicoate]

Could you supply a link to your scales survey? I'd like to see it.

Ditto. I posted the question on Facebook and most of my friends are pretty disgusted that ANY high school band director would say that.

NONE of their students can play all 12 major scales? That's not even believable.

[Biggs]

This, (admittedly a stretch, as far as analogies are concerned, but still valid) sort of reminds me of the "let's pass out contraception...They're going to have sex anyway, you know" argument.

Rather than accepting the premise that "students aren't equipped to take it to the next level, so let's invent some sort of work-around", isn't it better to encourage (or require) students to elevate themselves to the next level rather than accepting their lower level and looking for some sort of "work-around" ?

Is abstinence the "next level?" Probably not what you meant, but definitely what you described. Unrelated to the topic at hand, but I couldn't pass up a chance to derail this particular locomotive with that particular penny.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

I searched "saxonthweb.net" and "saxophone.org" pretty thoroughly for such a discussion but couldn't find anything last night. I sure hope that kmurdick/lutemann comes back and leads us to that discussion. I'd really like to see hundreds of teachers/band directors say that no high school kids can play all 12 major scales. My Facebook kind of blew up about it. I even heard from a trumpet player I haven't talked to in years that I used to play jazz duo gigs with in college tell me he could play all 12 in one breath in high school.

I totally believe him, too.

[bigbob]

Is abstinence the "next level?" Probably not what you meant, but definitely what you described. Unrelated to the topic at hand, but I couldn't pass up a chance to derail this particular locomotive with that particular penny.

"Self-control" (behaving as a higher being with reasoning power and a conscience - a being that understands consequences and thinks before it acts, rather than as a wild beast, a livestock possession, or conditioned pet...ie. a being that takes responsibility for it's own well-reasoned actions) is the "next level".

If these concepts seem foreign, I'd bet you can find someone in your community you would be willing to discuss them with you.

WOW! a little teaching lesson turned into two different ways of going about jazzing things up...Let me see ...Is Bloke the Locomotive and is that penny the way Bloke teaches?? if so it sounds a little vin"dick"tive... I personally know nothing..I'm an Artist that plays everyday for relaxation and love to read you "experts" opions..even though I personally don't understand them and at 69 I probally won't<s> I at my advanced age will probally never get all the different Keys only the ones my teacher gives me to practice(havent had a lesson in 10 months).... I like playing the songs I have jazzed up a little when I become bored... NOW if the song is in CC and I play all CC notes will it blend with the music..(see told you I didn't know anything)I was here for the tuba's! now It would be nice to learn how to tune and play this great horn!...I hope you guys get back to teaching me instead of riding a train to no where land<s>Your concepts are great for the experts............................BB

[Donn]

People have different ways of doing things, different ways to learn to do those things, and after all we aren't all doing the same thing anyway.

If you all knew how weak my knowledge of music theory is, you'd be nauseated all over again, but improvising bass lines is most of what I do on tuba or bass. A large part of it is simply how well I know my instrument. If I know a tune, I know how the bass line could/should go. Occasionally it doesn't come out like it should; that isn't what I would call a cognitive problem. Either I can't accurately play the note I "hear", or I've lost the plot and am not "hearing" -- and more than half the time that's because I've started thinking (cognitively speaking) about the notes, instead of playing them. I don't usually even know what key I'm playing in, in this cognitive sense where I could tell you its name, though clearly I do know something about it somewhere in the dark recesses of my right cerebral hemisphere.

If I had a more acute grasp of music theory, I suppose it would make it quicker to get to step 1: "know the tune" at a level that carries a bass line. If I were a professional musician, I'd do well to work on that. I'm not, and my ability to get going on an unfamiliar tune is the least of my problems.

If I set out to teach people to do what little I do, to learn it the way I learned it, I suppose there are three parts

• brain to hand: play by ear, the ability to render notes from your head to your instrument, without conscious thought or effort. Play whatever you like, by ear, until it's automatic ... particularly for the keys and intervals you're going to need.
• ear to brain: learn a tune, the ability to hear and remember a tune at a level that gives you a clue to the bass line. I think a guitar is really a pretty good tool for this if you're so inclined. Chord structure is kind of a sketchy approximation to what a bass line does, but when you have an easy "play along" chord instrument that you play a lot, there is a lot of overlap in those skills. Humming is fine, though.
• staying "focused" during execution. Again, this is how I do it, I don't know how Ray Brown did it, but I have to be "musically present". That doesn't mean I can't look at girls etc., in fact it's a good idea if it distracts the parts of my brain that would otherwise get in the way and start thinking about notes when I should be playing them. (Unfortunately, or fortunately, it does tend to preclude singing.)

I don't know how long it would take a skilled "legit" player to pick that up. I don't really even know why he or she would want to pick it up. I know why I'm here, you all do what you want!

[kmurdick]

I may have been mistaken in what I said about high school students and scales. What I asked was, "typically how many scales do high school students know?" The answer was "3 or 4" and no one said their student(s) knew all 12 keys. I will ask again this way, "Do any of your high school students know all 12 major scales?" and get back to you. The site is SOTW.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

I may have been mistaken in what I said about high school students and scales. What I asked was, "typically how many scales do high school students know?" The answer was "3 or 4" and no one said their student(s) knew all 12 keys. I will ask again this way, "Do any of your high school students know all 12 major scales?" and get back to you. The site is SOTW.

For reference, many of the high school teachers that responded to my Facebook thread replied, "All of mine do. Because we teach them."

[Biggs]

Is abstinence the "next level?" Probably not what you meant, but definitely what you described. Unrelated to the topic at hand, but I couldn't pass up a chance to derail this particular locomotive with that particular penny.

"Self-control" (behaving as a higher being with reasoning power and a conscience - a being that understands consequences and thinks before it acts, rather than as a wild beast, a livestock possession, or conditioned pet...ie. a being that takes responsibility for it's own well-reasoned actions) is the "next level".

If these concepts seem foreign, I'd bet you can find someone in your community you would be willing to discuss them with you.

Someone hasn't had quite enough chances to act the wild beast, then!

[kmurdick]

Well, Bloke, you got the last word so you must be right. Good luck.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

Well, Bloke, you got the last word so you must be right. Good luck.

Guess that poll on saxontheweb.com isn't going so well.

Also, I can't find anything on there were you asked the question before and got the responses you indicated. Favor us with a link?

[Mark]

I am stunned at the amount of controversial posts in this benign thread. I'd like to bring it back to a more civilized state. The one question no one has asked is "Why would anyone in their right mind want to play jazz?".

[kmurdick]

I asked again (with a more pointed question) and the most credible answer was from a guy who was familiar with many high school districts. He said about 25% overall could play major scales in all 12 keys. That's pretty good.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

I teach jazz bass, and I have a "method." I teach patterns in ii/V relationships around the circle of fifths played along with Aebersold tracks. I also have my students write out bass lines to jazz standards and we analyze them together to see what "works" and what doesn't. We also sight-read bass lines from various charts.

As bloke points out, that's about 4% of the work. The other 96% is up to them, if they want to get good at it.

And Mark, why would anyone want to play jazz? I just made $225 this afternoon for playing a couple of hours with a very fine guitar player and a drummer at one of the most expensive houses in the richest district of OKC surrounded by a "lunch club" of lovely ladies. I can't say that I've ever done that playing classical music on the tuba.

Lutemann, I reject your assertion that the 25% answer you received was the most credible. I don't exactly live in the richest part of the country with the best schools. The most common answer I got from band directors and students around here indicated that most or all of the high school students here can play all 12 major scales.