Edgy (Marching Band) Sousaphone Sound

[Z-Tuba Dude]

Hey Guys.

I have to admit being a little ambivalent about the tone quality represented by the videos from the "Check this" thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QqAIn9b ... r_embedded (In case you didn't see it the first time)

At least in the second one, there is evidence of more musical thought in the performance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 2w2vRRNJVA (In case you didn't see it the first time)

As an old guy, I have to ask the question...

When did that sort of playing start to become: A) acceptable B) desirable?

I can see where the edgy sound can be effective, as another "color" on our palette (in the same sort of way that bass trombone edge is useful), but when it is the default sound, I have a problem with it.

Any thoughts?

[Dan Schultz]

When did that sort of playing start to become: A) acceptable B) desirable?

I can see where the edgy sound can be effective, as another "color" on our palette (in the same sort of way that bass trombone edge is useful), but when it is the default sound, I have a problem with it.

Any thoughts?

We have a few players in our community band who 'come and go' that have that 'edgy' sound. I think it's just a carryover from those annoying marching band 'wall of sound' days'. Funny... they are all former students of one local teacher.

[Untersatz]

When did that sort of playing start to become: A) acceptable B) desirable?

You just hit the nail right on the head!!

It sounds like sh*t to me..........Nothing short of overblown & DISTORTED
Good tone should be first & foremost!!! Playing loud should still be done within that tonal range.
Overblowing a sousaphone (like in these youtube videos) makes a giant "kazoo sound" Doesn't even
sound like a sousaphone any longer

Maybe I'm just old school, when it was about music..........and not just loud noise

[Ace]

It is possible to play loudly and still produce a good sound. Here's an example.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00138 ... 68-8191904" target="_blank

Just click the arrow to play the MP3 sample.

Ace

[Untersatz]

It is possible to play loudly and still produce a good sound. Here's an example.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00138 ... 68-8191904" target="_blank" target="_blank

Just click the arrow to play the MP3 sample.

Ace

Yep.........that sounds really nice (even tho not my kind of music) It still DOES sound like a tuba & not overblown or distorted in any way. As a matter of fact, the tuba player in this Banda sample is quite good & is actually very enjoyable to hear

[jmh3412]

What on earth is this. No musicality at all. Even when there is a melody it sounds like a kazoo! Apart from the pure volume of sound there is nothing of any musical merit here. Now for musical , controlled, massed band tuba playing look here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg0M72MjIn8" target="_blank" target="_blank

[Tuboss2]

I didn't think my original "check this" topic would cause this much controversy. But I do have something to say;

People play the sousaphone with edge, pretty sure that's what it's made to do. And usually when you play the Sousa you're outside "unless your doing a jazz band gig". Even in those, there's edge used to funk up and beef up the bass line a bit.

Now HBCU tubas, they all play Edgy and downright crazy loud. I personally liked that style of playing. It is not a default though. I have a concert band sound which fufuils it's requirements(providing a floor for my band).

When I play Sousa, most of the time I'm thinking: how loud could I play this sucker?

I understand some do not like the edgyness some bands or players play with. But you have to admit, you never know what it's like honking a Sousa till you try it. Pretty stinkin' cool.

I mean, for example, when a HBCU tuba player plays a low F it's loud as heck. I'd like to know who could play a louder low F then that. It's not just honking and senseless blasting, you gotta play the right notes and be In time too. It takes a considerable amount of skill to do what they do. That is why I'm after that sound and am putting in the work for it everyday on my tuba.

[DaTweeka]

Now, call me racist if you wanna, but this sound comes from mainly all-black schools and marching bands in lower-income urban areas. These students aren't taught to emulate the concert tuba's sound because, oftentimes, concert horns aren't available (see the lower-income statement above), while marching horns are. And marching horns are all about being loud and proud and edgy; it's about being heard. Now, the question comes; Is your concept of a good sound predicated entirely upon the, shall we say, "suburban" concert tuba sound? These marching bands have found a new sound for the horn that easily pokes out of the texture, and they've obviously pursued it to some end, because there is a unified tone quality to these horn lines. This seems to relate very well to the early punk movement, where it was all about distortion and was intended to be a departure from what rock 'n' roll had become. So, is it difficult to hear what's happening here, or does the sound not quite carry up to your high horse?

[Dan Schultz]

....People play the sousaphone with edge, pretty sure that's what it's made to do. ....

Apparently, you've never heard any recordings of dance bands from the days before modern amplification came into being. In the center of most every 'big band' was a sousaphone. These horns were made to sound like organs. NOT kazoos.

[Heavy_Metal]

Or this, which is more recent:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlBsO7ewjh8" target="_blank

!!!

[Donn]

In the center of most every 'big band' was a sousaphone. These horns were made to sound like organs.

Well, hm, I think there really is a need for some edge there - not gross distorted blatting and not specific at all to the sousaphone, but no one wants an organ for a bass.

[Biggs]

People play the sousaphone with edge, pretty sure that's what it's made to do.

nope

[swptwo]

What on earth is this. No musicality at all. Even when there is a melody it sounds like a kazoo! Apart from the pure volume of sound there is nothing of any musical merit here. Now for musical , controlled, massed band tuba playing look here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg0M72MjIn8" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

A lot of the "tone quality" in the video can be attributed to the dime-store microphone on the phone? handicam? that recorded the clip (not to mention the YouTube compression strategy). The recording itself was obviously distorted at the time of capture, not the players (who live may also be wanting in the tone department of course, but you sure can't tell from this video). So to measure the quality of this performance, captured by a built-in mic on cheap video gear and later compressed as it surely was, smacks of catty, to me. Don't trust this audio, it's very troubled. I'd rather we were enthusiastic that there are so many young tuba players. Hooray for them!

[Tuboss2]

I'll do the studying on my own time.

I don't know why people don't like the style of playing I'm after. But it's ok, everyone has their perference. Not a problem. But people shouldn't just bash it as bad tuba playing. It does take some talent to do what HBCU'ist do. I'll say that.

[Mark]

What style of playing is acceptable or desirable?

Good playing is desirable and bad playing is not.

[Mark]

When I play Sousa, most of the time I'm thinking: how loud could I play this sucker?

Keith Brion and Sousa himself would disagree with you.

[Z-Tuba Dude]

...
As an old guy, I have to ask the question...

When did that sort of playing start to become: A) acceptable B) desirable?

I can see where the edgy sound can be effective, as another "color" on our palette (in the same sort of way that bass trombone edge is useful), but when it is the default sound, I have a problem with it.

Any thoughts?

Let me ask this:
What style of playing is acceptable or desirable?

I'm sure this question was asked when jazz came about or with rock music or gangster rap. Clearly, someone (or a whole lot of people) like and want a certain style of playing.

You are generalizing the issue. We are not discussing (ragging on) styles of music.
We are discussing a tone quality, and its appropriateness within a particular style of music.

[imperialbari]

Are tubas/sousaphones percussive instruments?

Not in my little black book!

Leave that to the drummers.

Klaus

[b.williams]

LOL. I find sousaphone battle videos very entertaining. I would be a lot of fun play in one of those gigantic sections. It's a form of entertainment, not a reflection about the breakdown of some aspect of modern society.

[ghmerrill]

I've been watching this debate go by with some sense of puzzlement -- especially the various claims about what a Sousaphone is "supposed" to sound like or what it was designed or intended to do. Those questions can pretty easily be settled with a little effort directed to the history of the instrument and old recordings. Of course, that doesn't address the question of what a Sousaphone CAN be used for, but it's best not to confuse those two issues. To some degree, this may be a debate along the lines that a guitar should be used for quiet chamber music and not electronically amplified hard rock.

But in terms of "traditional" uses and sounds of the instrument, I do prefer the sound that is found in HBTJ contexts (Historically Black Traditional Jazz). I somehow get the impression that a number of the participants in this discussion have never managed to make it through New Orleans, where a lot of groups use the Sousaphone as the bass. I was at the Treme festival this past year, and more generally around town listening to quite a variety and number of bands; and I continue to be amazed at the wonderful (rich, in tune, full range of dynamics from very soft to very loud) sounds those guys get from their Sousaphones. Quite a contrast to the local high school and college Sousaphone operators. But then the NO guys are pros with a lengthy history behind them. So I suppose a comparison isn't particularly fair.

What this has to do with an "edgy (marching band)" sound, I don't know -- except that there is a long history of the use of Sousaphones in marching and walking bands in NO, minus the edginess, it would seem.

Y'all use your Sousaphones for what you like. But try not to distort the history too much in justifying that.