Trombones

[Charlie Goodman]

Well, valve trombones tend to be a little bigger of bore, and so have a bigger, broader tone. As far as two horns of the same bore size, I would imagine that the added weight would do something of the same thing, but that's just speculation.

[Kenton]

Valve trombones tend to have a thinner tone, and a more raspy sound, as they often are of a smaller bore, and are less open because of the valves. Not that the sound is necessarily less pleasant (listen to Bob Brookmeyer), just different.

kms

[Dylan King]

You could get an MF Superbone and have the best of both worlds.

[ken k]

WE seem to have two differing opinions on the size of valve trombone bores.

I wonder if Charlie wasn't refering to trombones with f attachments valves or thumb rotors. these trombones tend to be larger bore size and will have a larger broader tone. The valve trombone with three valves like a trumpet tend to be much smaller in bore, infact some of the companies use a trumpet valve set so the bore is less than .500 on most valve trombones and the tone tends to be very edgy. Also the articulations sounds different than on a slide trombone due to the fact that you can do a natural slur without tonuing on a valve trombone just like on a tuba or euph, but most surring on trombone is still tongued just very smoothly. Listen to some Rob McConnell and the Boss Brass and you will hear the difference. Rob is a valve trombonist.

ken k

ken k

[Kenton]

I think one contributing reason that the valve trombone has the thinner sound is because parts have been grabbed from the trumpet parts bin. In the interest of economics, mellophones and others have had their optimum design compromised.

I tried a superbone once, and was unpleasantly surprised how small a bore it is.

But, historically, the slide trombone almost died out for wind band use in the late 1800's. And the valve trombone was the dominant trombone. From the introduction of the the saxhorn bands in the mid 1800's, the trombone and horn (and true trumpet as well) dropped out of favor as the saxhorn family of cornets, alto horns, tenor horns, baritones and Eb tubas took center stage for most the the balance of the 1800's.

kms

[Rick Denney]

I know this is a tuba forum, but I couldn't get into a trombone one fast enough. I was wondering if anyone could tell me the difference between a valve trombone and a regular slide trombone as far as sound goes.
-Tom

Okay, folks, don't guess.

Most valve trombones have a smallerbore, because they often use a trumpet valve block. The valves replace the slide altogether in most of them. A .46ish bore seems about typical.

Straight trombones (with a slide) have a bore ranging from .5" or a hair less (for jazz use) to about .55" (for orchestral use).

Thus, most valve trombones have a little brighter and smaller sound than straight tenor trombones. They also have a bit less of paint-peeling quality, owing to the energy absorbed by the sound vibration making all those turns.

Most trombone players would consider the valve trombone to be a crutch for non-trombonists to avoid having to learn slide technique.

There have been some interesting exceptions to the above generalities, but they are interesting mostly because they are the exception, not the rule.

Rick "who has owned both valve and straight trombones, and can't play worth a darn on either" Denney

[Ace]

My old valve-trombone has a very small bore (approx. .480"), but has a nice, large sound. It's labeled "Adolph Meinl-Schmidt, Graslitz, B" The horn was in Bb when I got it, but I had it cut to C so I could read bass clef and use trumpet fingerings. It's got four rotary valves---very noisy clockspring mechanisms. I suspect restoration would be very costly as repair techs don't like working on old clocksprings.

[Kenton]

It's got four rotary valves---very noisy clockspring mechanisms. I suspect restoration would be very costly as repair techs don't like working on old clocksprings.

And who can blame them, those suckers are tricky!

I have never tried a valve trombone with rotary valves, but I suspect it may a different animal than the typical piston valve trombone.

kms

[ThomasDodd]

I thought the Olds valve sections were the same bore as the slide sections they replaced.

These were small bore by todays standards (0.500") but considered normal at the time.

[Chuck(G)]

AFAIK, the Conn 90G valve bone was built with the same bore as the 88h, takes a bass shank mouthpiece and is wrapped like a euphonium.

I've played one, and it had a nice full tone, but the intonation was pretty difficult to wrestle with.

[tubatooter1940]

Coming off tuba and trumpet,my old Besson valve bone was just the trick.It was fingered the same and was an octive lower.I could play it and trumpet-one in each hand but I never mastered the technique of clamping them both together and playing them both almost as one.
The Besson was so mellow in tone and was a nice alternative to the brassy trumpet.After losing the besson in a barroom fire (the sauter joints melted and the pieces lay on the floor black as the ace of spades),I got mt son's Conn slide bone and found it sexier sounding and easy to blatt.
Playing smears is so much fun.I could acclimatize my lip to switching back and forth between bone and trumpet in a few weeks-no problem.
Switching back and forth between tuba and trumpet is almost impossible for me.

[Charlie Goodman]

Yeah, sorry about that, I thought he meant trombones with f attachments... which do have a bigger bore most of the time, turns out. Sorry about the misunderstanding.