Edgy (Marching Band) Sousaphone Sound

[Musical_Eagle]

I personally hate the edgy sound and there is one kid at my high school that almost always plays that way (concert and Sousa). He goes really sharp and does do anything about it and my Band director won't do anything against it. It just disgusts me.

As for loud playing on the sousaphone, I play a lot of pedal splits so those I can play really loud without any edge, it just sounds odd when you are close to me but sounds like an organ if you are at least 20-30 feet away (one of my best friends was warming us up and he really liked the sound and he was an awesome tuba player).

One problem that I have with sousas is that I am always sharp by 10-20 cents on bottom of the staff F and higher but everywhere else in my range, it isn't sharp. Doesn't happen with concert tubas though.

[David Richoux]

Are tubas/sousaphones percussive instruments?

Not in my little black book!

Leave that to the drummers.

Klaus

In one of the bands I am in the tuba/Sousaphones are more important than the stumbly bass drummer in keeping the song going. It is not a very rehearsed band, but we do have fun (and entertain the audience!)

[Toobist]

Or this, which is more recent:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlBsO7ewjh8" target="_blank" target="_blank

!!!

THAT is a sousaphone sound.

I feel that the tone that occurs when you use proper air (as loud as you can play still requires technique) is the correct sound. In other words, the sound that you get while playing correctly is the correct sound. I mean, get those teeth outta the way, open your oral cavity and use the same velocity of air! Even those woofy-playing sousas can sound musical. And if you plug your mouthpiece into a concert tuba and you still sound like that... That's your first clue that you kinda missed the concept of sound from the get-go.
You can get edge without sacrificing tone or pitch. Tony was playing pretty darned loudly and it sounded great! A little edge at some points that only added to the style. I'll bet if the next pep rally or football game had a band with 8 Tony Kniffens backing them up, the crowd wouldn't miss the blatty, fuzzy sousa playing that is rife in the marching band world today.
I've heard VERY loud contra lines that sound fantastic. I've also heard VERY loud sousaphone players (like Tony Kniffen above) who made the responsible choice to give the world a good example rather than lower the bar and therefore the general public's expectation (That can later lead to people incorrectly thinking that the ricky-ticky, nasal, blatty and unmusical way they've heard sousas played is the right way to do it is the acceptable way to do it... or GASP! the right/preferred way!).

A message to students: Listen to how your teachers sound and emulate that (so you have something to work toward before you have the starting point from which to begin honing your own sound). Listen to your peers for reference in how it relates to your teachers' sound... not to estimate the decibel level you need to achieve to drown him out.

There was reference above to loud corps players and even metal music. Myself, I liked -some- of the high lead playing (Doc for sure!) and any death metal or what-have-you, I like if it's executed well and musically. I've heard some great metal where sure it's loud, but the musicianship is still apparent. That's key. Musicality. Did I mention musicality?

[Untersatz]

Even those woofy-playing sousas can sound musical.

Woofy Tuba.jpg

[Toobist]

Even those woofy-playing sousas can sound musical.

Woofy Tuba.jpg

BAHAHAHAHA! Nice!

[Untersatz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sx4FWOjpH8" target="_blank

Here is a good example of playing LOUD and still producing a good tone. (without being overly-blatty or distorted)
With only 5 guys playing, this group manages to play LOUD with good tone & projection, without sounding like a brunch of "kazoos" Imagine 20 or 30 sousaphones playing in this manner............actually with a little "musicianship"

[Z-Tuba Dude]

I think that our instrument is still relatively young enough, that the standards of technique & tone are still being defined.

We, as musicians, have not yet achieved the same reputation for the kind of musical standards that are expected of a fine violinist.

The problem is that people don't really know what to expect to come out of the bell of a tuba. I saw that every time I conducted a TUBACHRISTMAS. So many people in the audience were surprised by how beautifully the ensemble played. After the concert, they would come up and say: "I didn't know tubas could sound like that!".

That is the crux of the problem.

While I think that playing with an edge, can be an expressive tool, useful in certain instances, it seems like the guys in those tuba war videos use that as their "normal" sound.

It does not help us to achieve a higher footing, in the musical world.

[Tuboss2]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=V7KzBe1cc1E

http://youtube.com/watch?v=dQDIuai5vPA

http://youtube.com/watch?v=uePjAZhtQ7g

http://youtube.com/watch?v=RTQBRFviV-4

http://youtube.com/watch?feature=related&v=08g0VroT2MA

Compare those videos to each other guys. What would carry? What wouldn't? What sounds bad? What sounds good? Critique each video please. You don't have to watch all of it, but do watch Enough of each to get a good idea of the general sound. Thanks.

[ghmerrill]

But in terms of "traditional" uses and sounds of the instrument, I do prefer the sound that is found in HBTJ contexts (Historically Black Traditional Jazz).

Define, please, with examples.

A mild attempt at irony, not intended to have a high degree of historical accuracy. I suppose 'HWTJ' would have done just as well. Or perhaps both HBTJ and HWTJ. Or HDTJ (Historically Dutch Traditional Jazz). Or more generically, H?TJ. Often the use of unexplained acronyms makes me a little nutty. I confess that I actually had to look up 'HBCU'. The research introduced me to a rich tuba sub-culture and distinctions of which I had been blithely unaware. My own experience leads me to believe that the ability or propensity to blatt is not racially, ethnically, or culturally associated to any significant degree.

[Tuboss2]

One here that's sorta beside this topic: usually, you're louder on sousaphone then in tuba because of bell size correct? For example, bottom line F(tuning F) would be louder on sousaphone then tuba correct? Or is that not the case most of the time?

[Untersatz]

One here that's sorta beside this topic: usually, you're louder on sousaphone then in tuba because of bell size correct? For example, bottom line F(tuning F) would be louder on sousaphone then tuba correct? Or is that not the case most of the time?

Not necessarily louder, but a sousaphone gets "heard" a lot louder than a tuba simply because of the fact that the bell is pointing directly at the audience instead of up in the air as with most tubas these days.

[Donn]

I'm more into the non-historically Jewish-Italian sound, of late.

[bigtubby]

I'm more into the non-historically Jewish-Italian sound, of late.

Difficult to argue with IMHO.

[Michael Bush]

It seems pretty obvious that there are some places where that sound is what is expected. So that's pretty much that. I don't want to play like that, and I don't especially want to listen to it, but there clearly are those who do both. So, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

There's a separate theme in this thread as well, though: Isn't it true that there is a legitimate range of more or less orchestral or symphonic band tuba sound that ranges from more-like-the-string-bass to more-like-the-trombones? When "edginess" flies out of control, you get what we've got in these videos, but resonant edginess like a trombone represents an ideal tuba sound to some very fine tuba players.

And isn't there also even a legitimate percussive role for the tuba? (A professional and teacher with more street cred on here than me told me once that there is a sense in which we are bass drums with pitch. Not that bass drums don't have pitch, but they just have one apiece.)

[Tuboss2]

Is this an edgy sousaphone sound?



I'd love to play like that!

Or is this too edgy?

Before I comment about the videos, I just want to say that the girl in the red dress in the first video is hot as hell. Idk how that guy let that slip away. Man!

Now about the sounds, the sounds are indeed a bit edgy, not that much ill say. And their very very compact which is pretty cool to me. The first tuba player in the first video, that was some beast playing, I know darn well I can't Do that.

Very nice sounds indeed, but here's the main question that will make it a win or lose for me. If you played like that out on the marching field or in the Stands for example, would it carry? And if so, by how much? That's my main concern in all of this. What will carry and cut through the band like a blade and what won't carry.

And check this out, how loud you think these guys are playing?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pJKrWv1sjJ4

[imperialbari]

Liked the tuba in the second video. To me it sounds like having undergone some electronic edits beyond equalization.

Klaus

[Mark]

What will carry and cut through the band like a blade and what won't carry.

If it "carries and cuts through the band" and it sounds bad, then the entire band will sound bad.

[Untersatz]

If it "carries and cuts through the band" and it sounds bad, then the entire band will sound bad.

But since this IS a sousaphone band, if all of them are "sounding bad" at the same time, that makes it OK right?

[Mark]

This is ... thrilling.

[Toobist]

You can roll a turd in sugar all you want... Doesn't make it a doughnut.

If it sounds unmusical... you're not playing music well, NO MATTER the GENRE. I make money playing orchestral music, jazz, contemporary rock, classic rock. I used to play in drum corps and lemme tell you... I can play damn loud. I can deafen a bass section if I really put my mind to it. I don't. I refuse to let people think that sounding like crap is desirable and I wish more musicians (amateur or professional alike) would take a good OBJECTIVE look at what they're presenting to the public on our instruments. The reason we THINK the audience wants us to sound that way is because we haven't given them the option. Why is it so easy to impress an audience with a few eighth notes? Because the players before you didn't give your audience a good example from which to draw their opinion.

Guess what. Even the most unenlightened layperson would prefer a loud sousaphone player with a concept of sound that is controlled and rich with overtones over a sousa player who chooses to overdo it and play "blatty". I can play with an edge while controlling my horn... can you? No? Then back to the practice room and practice loud playing kid! Geez...

Lemme paraphrase the arguments I'm hearing:

"I can only play loudly with a lack of control. Therefore, in my opinion (oh gawd! The word opinion doesn't mean you have carte blanche to spread your fact diluting "information" guys...) , that sound should be desirable in some instances. Don't be ignorant! My band teacher says i should play crappy and the audience should like it! Don't judge me because I haven't practiced! The audience should decide (based on their inexperience with the sound of a sousaphone?) how I should sound... and obviously, they like my blatty, craptastic, low expectations of tone. Don't disregard my opinion just because it's based on misinformation, inexperience and/or nonsense!"

It's up to us, the players of our chosen instrument, to raise the bar and uphold standards. What would be an error (and would cheapen our efforts and our ART), is to be complacent with our weaknesses (admitted or not) and strive to make our instrument ever more respected. Strive for better, don't try and argue that inferior playing is preferred. If you prefer it... it's because you don't wanna sit down and play your goddam long tones.

If your argument is: "I admire better tone and I'm striving for it but haven't quite got there as I'm still young and/or inexperienced, so please don't judge me!" I can commiserate. In fact, that's a state of mind a musician should be in throughout his/her career... striving for better. If your argument is: "I'm cool with my tone now and I'm gonna kick up a fuss with those from whom I should be garnering advice and information, so screw off, I'm good ENOUGH! Some genres require bad players so that's my niche (and then go on to pass on cockeyed and complacent advice to their peers)," then please, please shush and help keep this forum a USEFUL resource for the rest of us.

(Have you noticed that so many of our heroes and idols who used to frequent this list haven't been heard from in ages? Ever wonder why? I don't.)