Edgy (Marching Band) Sousaphone Sound

[tofu]

It is time. Someone post a food or beer pic. This thread is pointless.

[Tuboss2]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vokrox5Gj1U
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwpdbbIshGQ
A little curious bout these 2, critique them if y'all don't mind.

[The Big Ben]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vokrox5Gj1U
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwpdbbIshGQ
A little curious bout these 2, critique them if y'all don't mind.

No.

[royjohn]

KiltieTuba wrote:

What are you hoping for?
You already know what the orchestra-trained and dixieland/jazz tuba players think of this 'style', I'm waiting to see a post from Tuba Joe, or any of the non-classical tuba players about this topic... maybe they already have posted but it's buried beneath all the 'hate'.

My opinion:
The Auburn guys were posted before, but the poster chose a different video that was supposed to show that these guys were different ... but they aren't.

The other one, it's an HBCU sousaphone section at a football game, in the stands, in an open stadium - you can hear them, that's good, at least you can hear them and their echo, that's already better than many other schools. Plus they seem to be enjoying what they're doing...

If you, Tuboss2, want to know what I think, go over to the thread on Beatboxin' and look at my response to KiltieTuba there. There isn't anyone prohibiting folks from posting here, so if you're not getting support from the non-"orchestra-trained and dixieland/jazz tuba players" it's because they don't feel like posting, not because they're buried under the hate. Tuboss2, you've had eleven pages of discussion of your questions and that is a lot more than I have ever gotten, yet I've never claimed that there's a cabal against me, as KiltieTuba seems to be implying is arrayed against you and him.

I listened to the first of your latest clips and I found the blattiness of the stacatto notes too much. maybe it would be better in a stadium, but, as recorded, I think they took it too far. They can do differently, as their sustained notes were a little edgy, but very nice sounding. I think it's a matter of taste to some extent. IDk why you keep posting videos. . . your points have long been made and if you haven't heard what people are saying yet, you probably won't. This is getting kind of like the kid who asked to go out of the neighborhood to A and was told "No," and then asked, "well, can I go to B, to C, to D?" If you haven't gotten the message that most folks here don't like this form of playing or consider it just a form of stadium entertainment or a type of tone with a limited use, you just aren't listening.

I am unable to download your other excerpt without downloading another software program and I'm trying to keep my life simple, so I'm not going to go there.

I'll state again, Tuboss2, that I'm glad you're excited about the tuba and I wish you good luck with your approach. Learning to play loud can't hurt you much, but won't ever help you learn to play . . . legato, mellow, flexible, pianissimo, etc., etc. Good luck in finding your niche. Unless you have a new question to ask, I'm about done listening to variations on edgy tone with the question, "well, do you like this one?" People just aren't as interested in this as you are. Maybe in another forum with more high school and college football band players . . .

[k001k47]

He just wants to play really, obnoxiously loud.

Well I got that down already. I just want to make it not sound Blatty and kazoo like.
Low notes tho(Bb below the staff and lower), turn up the horsepower!
But yes that's what I'm tryin to accomplish...having a good loud.

Fuel is to fire as air is to buzz.

Buzz is to sound as . . . well, buzz is the sound.

[k001k47]

[Tuboss2]

I understand that this edge thing had been pushed way past the limit. I am aware of that. My videos that I've posted of other band tuba players are solely because I wanted opinions on different kinds of sounds by different tuba players, HBCU or not.

Honestly, I've gotten a very good strong idea for what I'm trying to accomplish. I am very well aware being loud isn't the only way to play the tuba. I must be able to do those other things because its not the band featuring the tubas. So I have to adapt to my band mates and support them the best way possible.

I've been practicing my loudness for the past couple of days, and I like what I'm hearing. I'm also focusing on little things like note starts, articulation and lip placement prior to the start of the note so I don't miss a note that I'm about to crank out do to my lips not vibrating fast enough.

11 pages of excellent information, really appreciate it guys. I realize some may not like this edginess I'm after for, but everyone has their preferences. With all that being said, I think I'm about done with this whole edginess topic. Have gotten great information from it, and I know what I need to do to get the sound I'm working for. Thanks guys; and sorry for the overbearing amount of videos, I'm aware that it gets pretty fckin annoying after a while, but I was just trying to get different opinions on different tuba section sounds.

I got what I wanted in this topic, so appreciate it guys. No more questions about Loudness or Edginess will be coming from me on this forum. Next question or thread I start will probably be about playing soft or something

Really appreciate you guys sticking with me though.

[b.williams]

[Tubaryan12]

If you DO learn to play with this type of tone, the only place you will be able to use it is in a handful of second rate college bands - if that is your goal, GO FOR IT. However, it is an unacceptable tone in ANY other circumstance.

True, but let's not forget a lot of those second rate college bands provide scholarship money for playing in those bands. If you don't have the desire, chops or skill to go after one of those pro tuba jobs out there, you might as well have a lot of fun, and get some cash to pay for the education you really want. Not a thing wrong with that.

It is still OK to have fun playing an instrument, isn't it?

[Z-Tuba Dude]

If you DO learn to play with this type of tone, the only place you will be able to use it is in a handful of second rate college bands - if that is your goal, GO FOR IT. However, it is an unacceptable tone in ANY other circumstance.

True, but let's not forget a lot of those second rate college bands provide scholarship money for playing in those bands. If you don't have the desire, chops or skill to go after one of those pro tuba jobs out there, you might as well have a lot of fun, and get some cash to pay for the education you really want. Not a thing wrong with that.

It is still OK to have fun playing an instrument, isn't it?

Yes, but then what kind of playing can do you do after the four years of college are over?

[Jay Bertolet]

If you DO learn to play with this type of tone, the only place you will be able to use it is in a handful of second rate college bands - if that is your goal, GO FOR IT. However, it is an unacceptable tone in ANY other circumstance.

True, but let's not forget a lot of those second rate college bands provide scholarship money for playing in those bands. If you don't have the desire, chops or skill to go after one of those pro tuba jobs out there, you might as well have a lot of fun, and get some cash to pay for the education you really want. Not a thing wrong with that.

It is still OK to have fun playing an instrument, isn't it?

I'm already breaking my own rule by posting again in this nonsense but I have to address this comment as this is the "boat" that so many are missing here. Does "having fun" equate to ruining the ensemble experience for everyone else? This is the very basic problem with this whole discussion. Some are treating their responsibilities as a member of an ensemble (whatever that ensemble may be) as an opportunity to "show off" and draw attention to themselves personally. These next words are harsh so brace yourself! THAT SORT OF ATTITUDE IS WRONG! No member of any ensemble should take this approach unless the director specifically asks them to do so. Believe it or not, that sometimes will happen. For tuba it is pretty rare but I can attest that it does happen. But anyone thinking about this whole issue has to ask themselves a simple question: How does this sort of playing help the ensemble? If you're honestly answering that question, the obvious response is that it does not help the ensemble in any way. It is a gag trick, that draws attention away from the ensemble and to the player employing it. How is that anything other than a selfish abuse of the experiences of every other person in the ensemble? In my mind, the only justification for playing this way is if the music director specifically asks you to do it. If you're taking it upon yourself to make that decision because you think the sound is cool or that the audience will respond, well....you might see in the responses in this thread what most musicians think of that.

[Tubaryan12]

THAT SORT OF ATTITUDE IS WRONG! No member of any ensemble should take this approach unless the director specifically asks them to do so.

Correct. In the type of environment I'm refering to, it is accepted by all involved. No one has told anyone to play this way everywhere. In one post, It was made clear to him that playing this way in the enviroment he was in was not accepted. No problem there, and the poster knows this. What this thread has turned into is the "you shouldn't do it because I don't like it" thread. That sort of attitude is just as wrong. I stated in my first comment in this thread, that playing this way is entertainment, and the audience that is willing to pay to hear it likes it.

Telling jokes can be fun, but not in every instance. That doesn't make telling jokes a bad thing.

Yes, but then what kind of playing can do you do after the four years of college are over?

Any type you commit yourself to doing well. In fact, you can play both styles at the same time. Some on this board are proof of that.

[Tuboss2]

If you DO learn to play with this type of tone, the only place you will be able to use it is in a handful of second rate college bands - if that is your goal, GO FOR IT. However, it is an unacceptable tone in ANY other circumstance.

Look, I want you to understand this; I am not trying to sound like a damn kazoo. I am just trying to achieve edginess at loud dynamics and still sound good. I don't want to hurt my ensemble in any way shape or form, why the heck would I want to do that?

I don't understand why some people are being so a**-tight about this sort of sound. I mean, have you been around orchrestras your whole life? If you were in marching band at one point of your life, I know you've tried to play a little louder then you usually would in concert band before.

And look I'm a musician as well, I can read music, play It the whole it needs to be played and all...not sure how playing FFFFFFF is not musician like but whatever.

Not just 2nd rate colleges do this type of sound, look at some D-1 colleges, Auburn, Ohio, Ohio State, Oklahoma State: and so on. It is spreading all over colleges. So it's obviously pretty damn popular.

[bigbob]

Ho Hummmm!!You are starting to sound like a teenybopper.that wants his way...I personly hate that sound it dosent sound pure kind of boring.. I m no athority I just sit in my room and practice and listen to Tuba CD's but I do reconize "good" tuba playing(something I'll never be able to do) but I'll keep on playing... You keep on blowing loud!Thats what boppers do and when you settle down and mature(in your music)Maybe then these artists will all make sence to You....maybe<s>...................BB

[tofu]

Here's the lesson of this thread:

Don't be different, everyone hates different.

Oh please - that's not true at all. Just because something is different doesn't make it good.

To quote Duke Ellington

"There are two kinds of music. Good music, and the other kind."

[opus37]

I can't say I'm a fan of this edgy sound. I do not find it pleasing. With that said, if you find it pleasing to you and you have an audience that enjoys the sound then go for it. Make it as good as you can make it. Have fun doing it. Keep an open mind. You likely will move from this style to something else in the future. Most of us have tried several styles over time. What never seems to go out of style is good tone and in tune playing with attention to dynamics.

[bort]

Here's the lesson of this thread:

Don't be different, everyone hates different.

Oh please - that's not true at all. Just because something is different doesn't make it good.

To quote Duke Ellington

"There are two kinds of music. Good music, and the other kind."

Or like the line from an art critic -- "If you don't like what I have to say, make better art!"

[bigtubby]

Edgy doesn't necessarily have to do with timbre. Sometimes presentation has it.
Es Tanzt Der Tubabutzmann

[Tuboss2]

Holy crap. I did what you said(open teeth and throat). And I used a crap load of air and the sound that came out was astoundingly loud. I messed around a little bit and played some stand tunes with open teeth and throat open and was amazed with the sheer amount of volume I was producing, no edge too. Look, stryx, I'm sorry if I came off like an ungrateful d*** to you. But wow, that was crazy loud. I am going to keep on messing around with that till I am getting right. I do notice that am having to use more air to keep that intensity and volume up at FF and higher. But that's ok, I'll get used to using more air.

I couldn't really get the full effect because I just did tried your advice after 3+ hours of practicing. Was really loud, but I could only imagine how loud it'd be when my chops are fresh and not worn out. Crazy.
Thanks and once again, sorry.

[Kevin Hendrick]

Holy crap. I did what you said(open teeth and throat). And I used a crap load of air and the sound that came out was astoundingly loud. I messed around a little bit and played some stand tunes with open teeth and throat open and was amazed with the sheer amount of volume I was producing, no edge too. Look, stryx, I'm sorry if I came off like an ungrateful d*** to you. But wow, that was crazy loud. I am going to keep on messing around with that till I am getting right. I do notice that am having to use more air to keep that intensity and volume up at FF and higher. But that's ok, I'll get used to using more air.

There ya go -- now you've got it!