Frustrated with Yamaha

[Bob Mosso]

I hope no one minds, I need to vent a little frustration. Absolutely open to any advise.....

In early January I joined a community band after a 20 year break. Dusted off the old Beuscher euphonium figuring it would get me by until I purchased a new horn. Promply researched new euphoniums and placed an order for a YEP-321S with wwbw.com on January 14th.

Delivery of the YEP-321S has been continuously pushed out, two weeks at a time.... as of this morning, perhaps it will ship March 30th..... I've called Yamaha, they are at fault, there are no YEP-321S in the country.

My old Buescher has a problem, I can't seem to lock onto high Bb. I'm blaming the horn as I tested a couple Kanstuls (I live very close to Anaheim CA) and was able to easily hit the Bb. I've tripple checked the Beuscher for leaks, yes the valves leak. I changed the felts to get a perfect port alignment, ....

I survived my first concert, just played a few sections "8vb". I keep reconsidering other euphoniums, Willson 2704, Besson 7065, MW 51, Kanstul 985, Bach B1110, .... I'm not convinced any of them are better than the 321. I even checked with Anahein Band Inst. for a rental, no euphoniums....

So I'll try to be patient and wait for the 321, or, perhaps I'll do my taxes in hopes to find a little extra $ and then consider a 642.....

thanks for listening, I feel a little better now.

Bob

[Rick Denney]

So I'll try to be patient and wait for the 321, or, perhaps I'll do my taxes in hopes to find a little extra $ and then consider a 642.....

Hoping that I don't annoy Roger, I would suggest that you could go the other way and save money by getting a Weril. It is very close to the 321 except that it accepts large-shank euphonium mouthpiecs (which the 321 does not). It's probably half the price, and several of the tuba stores have them in stock, ready to ship.

Rick "who would wait patiently for a something custom and special, but who doesn't think that description applies to a Yamaha 321" Denney

[Uncle Buck]

Don't be too quick to blame the manufacturer, rather than the retailer. If a retailer sold you a product and accepted your money without disclosing to you that the product would not be available for a long time, then the retailer is also at fault.
I also agree that a YEP-321 is a good horn, but not worth this kind of hassle.

[Bob Mosso]

Don't be too quick to blame the manufacturer, rather than the retailer.

When I placed the order wwbw told me it would be available mid-February. They won't charge my credit card till the day it ships. I can cancell at any time. I've called Yamaha and wwbw several times, Yamaha seems to know about the "re-schedules" about one week before wwbw knows about it.

[chhite]

Why not the Kanstul? How does it compare with the Yamaha you ordered? I have no experience with their horns.

[Joe Baker]

... save money by getting a Weril...

Preach it, Rick. I was thinking exactly the same.
_________________________
Joe Baker, who played a Weril euph owned by his son's High School, and preferred it to any Yamahas he's played.

[The Impaler]

Bob,

You might think about calling Custom music. They have a relatively new Perantucci non-comp, but large bore euphonium that blows very well (I got to try one at TBA in San Antonio a few summers back). They're pretty reasonably priced ($2000 or a little under), and, from what I've seen, pretty good horns.

[ThomasP]

In a recent visit with Lee Stofer in Atlanta, he spoke highly of the construction of Kanstul Instruments. I haven't played any of them, but if you have played the Kanstul's and they do what you want them to do, why not get one? Plus if you can get a compensating model Euphonium of any brand for the price you're paying for the 321 I personally would get it.

[tubarepair]

What about a Bach 1110 or 1110S. Same horn with the Bach name. Wichita Band can get the 1110S for $1,928.00 with case. Call for availability - not sure what Conn-Selmer-LeBlanc-Buick has in stock these days.

As far as the Kanstul, I've been to the factory and seen them made. Quality is a high priority. You can't go wrong there.

DLH

[Bob Mosso]

Weril: I don't know much about them, manufacturer's web site? Who sells them and is likely to have a silver one on the shelf? Build quality (very important since I would likely buy without trying)? Intonation of the partials (also very important to me)?

Bach 1110S: a good possibility, the 321 can be had for $1749 so I didn't see why I should pay _more_ for the Bach.

Kanstul: I stopped at their showroom on my lunch break 2 weeks ago, I tried the 985C and 980 that they had there. There were some obvious workmanship issues, ugly solder joints, brackets that weren't flat, Charles explained that the horns on display all had some sort of problem. I warmed up the 985C and checked the intonation with my tuner, the 3rd valve was a bit flat, the 3rd 4th 5th and 6th partials were all over the place + and -20 cents (not just the typical flat 5th partial). The 980 was similar, the 1st and 3rd valves were too flat and partials were all over the place. Charles offered for me to visit Zig at the factory down the street to try the other models, my lunch break was already long over. At the time I thought, just wait another 2 weeks and the 321 will be in.... Kanstul builds to order, I got the impression Zig was working to fix the types of issues I found.

[Rick Denney]

Weril: I don't know much about them, manufacturer's web site? Who sells them and is likely to have a silver one on the shelf? Build quality (very important since I would likely buy without trying)? Intonation of the partials (also very important to me)?

From the times I've tried them out, and from what others have said, these are at least as playable and in tune as the Yamaha. And they are more mouthpiece-friendly.

They are made in Brazil, and it looks as though they used the same tooling as Yamaha in most ways. They are distributed through DEG and they have a good reputation from players and from repair dudes. Spare parts are readily available and priced like the instruments.

Baltimore Brass shows a Weril H980S (in silver), with case, for $1180. You compromise nothing buying from them, including asking them for an honest appraisal of how it plays. I've bought two instruments from them and facilitated the purchase of two others. Both times I bought from them, Dave gave me a call several days after I'd bought to check and make sure I was happy and wanted it. He didn't process the check until then. Both times I was surprised--it's more service than I'm accustomed to.

Rick "who thinks it's safe to buy from BB sight unseen" Denney

[Wilco]

My old Buescher has a problem, I can't seem to lock onto high Bb.
Bob

How does it lock in with alternate fingerings??? With 1st. valve or 1+3???

[Bob Mosso]

How does it lock in with alternate fingerings??? With 1st. valve or 1+3???

G is fine and I can go up chromaticly, G# - fine, A -fine, then Bb isn't there, I can search for it with my lip, I can feel when my lip is above it or below it but the note never "locks in", I havn't tried alternate fingerings to achieve Bb or to see if I can "lock in" on anything above Bb, I'll try tonight.

[Z-Tuba Dude]

There is a used YEP-321, in really good shape at Dillons, if you are interested (it is not shown on the website).

[Chen]

How about the VMI 3171 Euphonium? VMI also makes Perantucci tubas, can't be too bad? wwandbw also has them.

[Cameron Gates]

Weril: I don't know much about them, manufacturer's web site? Who sells them and is likely to have a silver one on the shelf? Build quality (very important since I would likely buy without trying)? Intonation of the partials (also very important to me)?

They are made in Brazil, and it looks as though they used the same tooling as Yamaha in most ways. They are distributed through DEG and they have a good reputation from players and from repair dudes.

Baltimore Brass shows a Weril H980S (in silver), with case, for $1180. You compromise nothing buying from them, including asking them for an honest appraisal of how it plays. I've bought two instruments from them and facilitated the purchase of two others. Both times I bought from them, Dave gave me a call several days after I'd bought to check and make sure I was happy and wanted it. He didn't process the check until then. Both times I was surprised--it's more service than I'm accustomed to.

Rick "who thinks it's safe to buy from BB sight unseen" Denney

Not so fast. I am one repair dude that says the Weril is nowhere near the quality of the Yamaha. I am sure other techs will agree. Have you ever seen how the brass puckers on the bell side of the bow after a dent is taken out? These horns cannot, in my opinion, be mentioned in the same breath as Yamaha as far as construction. As far as how they sound, I don't care. All I do is fix 'em.

Yamaha = bulletproof
Weril = not

[Bob Mosso]

Would the recommendations change if I admitted that the $ isn't really an issue. I'd like to get one of the best (if not the best) non-comp euphoniums available, I thought the 321 was it. I'm willing to pay more if it gets me a better instrument.

I would judge intonation as my 1st priority, I couldn't imagine playing on a horn where the partials are all randomly out of tune.

[Alex F]

Chen wrote

How about the VMI 3171 Euphonium? VMI also makes Perantucci tubas, can't be too bad? wwandbw also has them.

Looks like the VMI 3171 is suffering from a bad case of "euro-itis." About 10 days ago, these WWBW was asking $1100 for the laquer. Today, I noticed that both the laquer and silver were priced at $1864. Glad I bought mine when I did.

[Joe Baker]

The other part of your query about Weril was for a website:
http://www.weril.com/us/index.asp

As to money being no object: I don't really know what is the most in-tune euph. My experience with Yamahas (which differs from most other people I talk to) is that I've had a hard time getting them in tune. One of the things I liked about the Weril -- I suspect attributable to the larger leadpipe -- was that it didn't slot so tightly. The pitch was flexible, and therefore as good (or as bad) as my ear.

I can't help thinking though that if money is no object, and you really liked the Kanstuls, maybe it would be best to just get the instrument you know you'd like (or maybe Kanstul only makes comp euphs; I don't know).

Another non-comp euph I've heard touted is the King 2280. I've never played one, though, and have no opinion of my own.

Best of luck getting a horn.
___________________________
Joe Baker, who also really liked the little Weril tuba, and might look at the big ones when I get ready to upgrade from my current tuba. Someday.

[elimia]

As a previous owner of a Weril, and current owner of a Yamaha, I'll toss in my euro's worth here.

The Weril is a little thinner and more fragile sort of horn than a 321 I think. It also isn't finished quite as pretty. Personally, I didn't give a whiz about those things. It's the sound man! The Werils do have a great sound, excellent intonation, and decent valve construction. I played next to a fellow with a 321 in community band and I thought the sound was as good as the 321. That's me opinion. The only reason I sold mine was that I wanted a 3 + 1 alignment and I ended up finding a good deal on a compensator, so I bought it.

Good luck.