6/4 CC

[cle_tuba]

Hello everybody!
Anyone who has had the opportunity to play with these machines:
Gronitz PCK
Melton 2165
B & S Neptune (pistos and valves)
Baer
Nirchl
Yamayork
Thor (although minor but a large tuba)
Talk about what you know, make comparisons ...
thank you...

[jeopardymaster]

Can't speak to all, but here are my opinions of a few of them: my personal favorite of those you listed is the Neptune 4098 rotary horn. (Disclaimer: I own one and love it.) I have tried a few of the 4 piston 1 rotor variety of Neptune and didn't like any of them. When he was at WWBW Charlie Krause told me both have the same bell as the Melton/MW whatever-number-they-use-now-model designation that Warren Deck made famous, minus that big slug of metal they were putting inside the bell of the MW at the time. Some folks sound terrific on those, but I was never one - just couldn't get accustomed to them. (I preferred the 2155, actually, but not enough to buy one.) I loved the one PCK I played, particularly for its relative low weight and responsiveness - just stunning. FWIW, I find the others all to be heavy as sin, including the Neptune.

One you did not mention is the Yorkbrunner. Once on a visit to Custom in the late '80s I was invited to try the horn Mike Thornton (God rest his soul) had ordered for himself. I was prepared to be envious, especially since I knew I couldn't afford it anyway, but I absolutely hated it: response was terrible, sound lacked clarity and the overtone series was way off. Mike didn't want it either. Part of the problem may have been misaligned valves, but that wouldn't have made the partials so funky. Unplayable, for me anyway. Of course, whoever ended up with it loves it and sounds great, I have no doubt. By the way, he wound up with a Willson, but went back to his Alexander 163 which he sounded great on anyway. You might want to look at those as well.

And I'll speak to another one you didn't include - that is the Rudy Meinl 5/4, which by my assessment should also be considered a 6/4 if the Neptune is. I've sat one next to my Neptune and found they are VERY close dimensionally, except the Neptune bore graduates through the valves and the Rudy does not. That makes a significant difference in playability, in my opinion. That plus the feature of having 2 alternate, clearly distinguishable leadpipes (call them medium and large for lack of better terms) gives an edge to the Neptune over the Rudy for me. And I've found a lot of Rudys have very uneven intonation. Can't/Won't speak to the other ones. Plenty of folks here will disagree with some of what I say, some with everything, so apply as much salt as you see fit.

[Jess Haney]

I can also attest to the Neptune. Great instrument with many nice extras i.e. valve kickers and an option to lock the 5th. The Yorkbrunner I tried at custom in 2005 was simply amazing and I did not have the same experience with it Jeopardymaster did. Very nice tuba with a very dark and smooth sound. They both are great horns but for the money the neptune is the best out of all of them by far for the pricepoint. I have not played the Rudy, Gronitz, Baer, or Yamayork, but I was not impressed by the 2165. The big Deck horn was not even in its response for me personally and I have played three different ones to my knowledge. All of which had their own quirks with strange notes and intonation. The Nirschl 6/4 I test drove was a BBb and a great one at that. Lighter construction and felt very controlable without that feeling of driving a mack truck. But still the Neptune is a great horn and often are sold used at decent prices that make it easy to get into a 6/4 if thats what you are looking into. A friend of mine purchased one for around $6000 a few years ago and the horn plays great. My 2 cents.

[cle_tuba]

thanks...

[ztuba]

Where's pt-6? Thor is a 6/4???? Blasphemy!

[cle_tuba]

Thor (although minor but a large tuba)

quoted tubas 6/4 and includes the thor as a "large tube", another colleague quoted Yorkbrunner, Rudy Meinl and which I did not say ...
Excellent, talk big tubas ...
The PT-6 can, and should, be included too ...

[Rotaryclub]

Played the Baer several times. An excellent horn-best I've played. Every Gronitz I've played was a bad horn in my opinion. Same with the 2165 (just not memorable and perhaps something wrong).

Would love to try all the others (especially the Neptune-never seen one) The Thor is not a 6/4, nor is a PT-6.



Thanks

[TheHatTuba]

.

[Roger Lewis]

Okay. Rotary Neptune - great horn easy to play; versatile; innovative; well thought out design; good scale; nice sound.
2165 - not easy to play; reasonable scale; difficult to get any bite in the low register; not user friendly in the high register. Would not be on my short list.
PCK - actually considered a 5/4 by the good one are magnificient. Good scale; good response in the low register; clear sound; fun to play.
Yorkbrunner - beautiful sound; good scale; not great in the low register but workable. Usually they are well crafted and there are two versions out there and the early version with some modifications seems to be the best.
5/4 Rudy- truly a 6/4 horn; stuffy in the low register (at least mine was); great sound; good scale; valves a little sluggish; older technology with valves 1&2 turning into the air and 3&4 turning across the air makes it a little more difficult to play than it should be.
Baer - great horn, especially the handmade version. Goid scale though designed for lots of slide pulling; can't play C# 235 as the 5th valve is longer than most other horns; easily adaptable for different mouthpiece shanks; better low register response than almost all other big horns because of the design of the 4th valve. A good choice.
Piston Neptune - I'm not going to waste much time on this one. Atrocious scale.
Thor- a 5/4 bit a fabulous horn. A bit inconsistent in construction but easy ad heck to play; great scale; easy high and low registers; fun to play. Probably the best low register of any horn.
PT6 - again a 5/4 with a smaller than average bore; good sound; good scale. Low range will only let you push it so far before it hits the wall. Won a lot of auditions.
Nirschl - good horn. Thinner than the Yorkbrunner but with excellent response and sound color. Valve bodies are now made in Brazil and are poorly done. The new ones usually require a fair amount of refitting to be functional. Valve stems of different lengths, valves 'way out of alignment. Once reworked they are quite nice.
Yamayork - good response; good scale; a little difficult in the low register. Great horn if you can afford it.

Hope this helps.
Roger

[jeopardymaster]

Anyone else want to talk about those Willsons? More a 5/4, I suppose, but weighs as much as a 6/4.

[tubeast]

Willson ? OK, I´ll bite.
The well known Willson attributes can be applied here:
Great workmanship, super heavy due to material thickness.
Easily played in high registers, at all volumes (sound won´t break up, easy to hit the desired notes).
My personal favorite is the BBb version of the 6400 RZ 5, though.
Completely had to relearn how to breathe. During the first months I thought it was stuffy in the low register, found out later that it wasn´t a stuffy horn, but a weak ME. That got better with practise.

Three drawbacks:
- You shouldn´t march this 35 pound monster.
- Not the most comfortable ergonomics. You have to king-spin this heavy horn to drain the 4th valve completely.
- very low 3rd partial F. Use 1-3 for that one. Strangely enough, ALL other notes are in great tune.

[J.c. Sherman]

Okay. Rotary Neptune - great horn easy to play; versatile; innovative; well thought out design; good scale; nice sound.
2165 - not easy to play; reasonable scale; difficult to get any bite in the low register; not user friendly in the high register. Would not be on my short list.
PCK - actually considered a 5/4 by the good one are magnificient. Good scale; good response in the low register; clear sound; fun to play.
Yorkbrunner - beautiful sound; good scale; not great in the low register but workable. Usually they are well crafted and there are two versions out there and the early version with some modifications seems to be the best.
5/4 Rudy- truly a 6/4 horn; stuffy in the low register (at least mine was); great sound; good scale; valves a little sluggish; older technology with valves 1&2 turning into the air and 3&4 turning across the air makes it a little more difficult to play than it should be.
Baer - great horn, especially the handmade version. Goid scale though designed for lots of slide pulling; can't play C# 235 as the 5th valve is longer than most other horns; easily adaptable for different mouthpiece shanks; better low register response than almost all other big horns because of the design of the 4th valve. A good choice.
Piston Neptune - I'm not going to waste much time on this one. Atrocious scale.
Thor- a 5/4 bit a fabulous horn. A bit inconsistent in construction but easy ad heck to play; great scale; easy high and low registers; fun to play. Probably the best low register of any horn.
PT6 - again a 5/4 with a smaller than average bore; good sound; good scale. Low range will only let you push it so far before it hits the wall. Won a lot of auditions.
Nirschl - good horn. Thinner than the Yorkbrunner but with excellent response and sound color. Valve bodies are now made in Brazil and are poorly done. The new ones usually require a fair amount of refitting to be functional. Valve stems of different lengths, valves 'way out of alignment. Once reworked they are quite nice.
Yamayork - good response; good scale; a little difficult in the low register. Great horn if you can afford it.

Hope this helps.
Roger

+1 on all of this, though I find the timbre of the Baer not very flexible nor attractive, and I've not Yamayorked.

The Alex 164's not here... Insanely open - crap intonation - insanely good sound!

BMB - good horn (insanely good for the price). Great scale!

I want to try a new 190 Miraphone!

[kathott]

Dear Hans, private message sent (re: F tuba)
F: Melton 46 S "Klemens Pröpper"

[J.c. Sherman]

I want to try a new 190 Miraphone!

They are certainly more accessible than the old ones. The scooped-out 186-size rotors (in comparison to the huge-diameter 1970's model 190 rotors) are even faster than 186 rotors (as there is less mass/weight/surface area than 186 rotors), and the pitch/response are (in comparison to a 1970's model 190) are greatly improved.

(I worked on Ben Pierce's [CC] a while back, and played it for a few minutes.)

Again, it's much better than those of decades ago. I wouldn't choose it for myself.

I'm encouraged - thanks!