Big vs Loud?

[bigbob]

OMG..........Please tell me this isn't "Edgy (Marching Band) Sousaphone Sound"............Part II

Same teenybopper almost the same title except replace edgey with loud....go practice Kid.....BB

[Tuboss2]

No no it won't be a repeat of that Guys. We've already been through that.

And one thing, I have some questions I'd like to ask then I guess we could call this thread a wrap...

Lets say I'm outside, we're playing a stand tune, and I'm playing with edgy/raunchy loud sound, what will it sound like on the other side of the field?

iPhone recorders don't really get all the of tuba sound do they?

And when y'all say strength, are you talking about strength of the chops?

Also, it seems that when I open up a lot and aim my air stream downwards, my notes become really thick and are being brought out to the forefront. Just an observation I got from my practice session. So would direction of air stream matter when playing big/loud.
Thanks.

[Untersatz]

Lets say I'm outside, we're playing a stand tune, and I'm playing with edgy/raunchy loud sound, what will it sound like on the other side of the field?

Did you not listen to a single thing people were telling you in your last thread?
It will sound like a BIG annoying sounding kazoo..........just like all of the videos that
you posted in your last thread

[Jay Bertolet]

'Nuff said.

[royjohn]

Must...not...hit...send...let...thread...die...auuurggghhhhh!!!

[The Big Ben]

No no it won't be a repeat of that Guys. We've already been through that.

Then STFU.

[Jason Roamer]

Edgy, raunchy sound will not carry well to the other side of the field. The treble gets lost in the rest of the band blend, or "blend," depending on general balance and ensemble intonation.

[bigtubby]

From the lips of someone who actually knows: "... as big as you make it ..."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yP-W4N_lpCw&t=3m19s

[tofu]

Edgy, raunchy sound will not carry well to the other side of the field. The treble gets lost in the rest of the band blend, or "blend," depending on general balance and ensemble intonation.

This is bull XXXX. Even though it's correct, it's still bull XXXX !
Don't resort to BSing to try to persuade this kid that he shouldn't blast.
As Wade suggested it's a phase many of us have gone through, He'll get over it. (Or not)

You know Brian there are kids who frequent the forum and a little restraint in regards to swearing goes a long way. Many of us adults don't really care for it either. There are a multitude of words to get a point across without resorting to coarse language. Lets set an example for the younger folks on the board. Okay?

[brassbow]

Ok I have cut wood and ready for the flames when I thought of my reply.
I am not only a tubist but I play 1st trumpet in a bigband and cornet for a community group, and Alto for a polka band
My reply to loud versus big is what are you playing music wise. If it is a heavy pop piece ( thrift shop or tower of power type stuff or banda stuff) loud and edgy.
Wagnerian= controlled edge let the metal vibrate a bit.
ballad or classical like a big church organ.
As a trumpeter I focus the on the back of the hall, but no edge unless it needs it per the music being played
On cornet I try to get the air around me to vibrate, Impossible to overblow so never gets edgy.
sousaphone would be akin to the trumpet focus.
Concert tuba is like a cornet.
Did an experiment. Set up a sound pressure meter as an app on wife's phone, had wife and brother in law sit in kitchen while I was in living room. Played as loud as I could on trumpet and cornet. SPL was the same. Trumpet was perceived as louder because it had more harmonics (note: there was also pain involved). So my theory. Edge seems louder because there is more harmonics coming out. Unfortunately the ear starts to "overwork" trying to process the sound. More harmonics is also harder to control intonation wise. Now if you want to be heard project. Singers and actors project by lowering the voice and focusing on the lower harmonics. Low waves can travel for a long time before dissipating.
In closing DON'T MAKE ME GET OUT MY MELLOPHONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tuboss2]

Well, all of this was unexpected. Wasn't expecting this many replies.

But ok guys...and I don't know, it might a phase I'm in currently, if it is, it's gonna take a while for me to snap out of it .-.

And goodgigs, more youtube vids? Idk, it's a bit of a reach...but when I get time I'll see if I can make one then send it to you and see what you think about it.

[Jay Bertolet]

Most of the "EXPERT" advice givers in this board have never posted anything on youtube.....

Do you mean personally posted, like Chris Olka's informative posts for example, or do you mean playing on videos that appear on YouTube? Just curious, I would imagine the amount of players here that you could audit on YouTube is pretty staggering. I know that performances I play on down here are regularly posted to YouTube. I don't know, you might be surprised...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSEIyuyYaW8" target="_blank"

[bigbob]

WOW!!! That was wonderful Jay....What kind of recording equiptment was used?? I would like to record myself I've bought a blue snowball and now have audacity but the first time I tried I thought I sounded terrible!! After I get a good recording(If ever) How do I get it on Utube or how would I send it to the group??As a novice and never having played except in my room I would like an honest accsesment or critique....If you all think it's bad well I'll continue to play for my own enjoyment but would like to know...any help would be greatly appreciated!!................BB

[Uncle Buck]

Wade likes turtles.

[Jay Bertolet]

Bob, you're WAY too kind!

The KCO is a group I play with once per year. They always do a patriotic concert sometime around July 4th and the last couple of years they have called me to do the job. As far as acoustics, it's about as bad a situation as possible. The hall is a 2400 seat behemoth that is really better suited as a gymnasium than a concert hall. There's no stage to speak of, simply a raised platform at one end of this huge box interior. The strings and woodwinds are amplified because otherwise you would hardly hear them out in the audience area. They put out mics for the brass but I always have them remove mine. It's just not necessary. The sound on the recording is what is pumped through the sound system and the video is done with three cameras. Nothing complex or high quality.

For posting of recordings that will give a true representation of what you sound like, I can offer no good advice. I've listened to tons of different setups and none capture the live sound. Our technology is going to have to get a lot better before that is a reliable expectation. If you want to evaluate performance in all aspects except sound quality, then just about any recording medium will do. I've had particularly good luck recording my studio's tuba ensemble with a mini disk recorder and an average Radio Shack PZM microphone. I found the playback quite true to the live sound, but nothing really captures the total depth of live sound.

I wouldn't worry about feeling bad about your own sound the first times you're hearing it played back. I tell my students a story to illustrate that point exactly:

When I was in high school, I auditioned for and won a place in the Michigan State Fair Honors Band. This was a HS honors band that played for one week every year during the Michigan State Fair in Detroit. The last year I played in that group, they were conducted by William Revelli, the founder of the CBDNA and world reknowned band conductor. It was an amazing experience and, unbelievably, I was asked to do a solo on the concert program. I chose the Morceau Symphonique trombone solo (transcribed down one octave) and after a rehearsal, we started doing the performances. They recorded those performances and lifted the very best one for a record (actual vinyl) that was sold to the band members. I bought one because my solo on that recording went, I thought, really well. I listened to the recording when I got it and was not disappointed. A few years later I was at college and I pulled out that recording because I wanted to show someone just how good a HS group could sound. While we were listening to the band play, my friend was looking at the record jacket and noticed that I had done a solo on the recording. He wanted to hear it and I was sure he would be impressed. I queued up the recording to listen and suddenly found I was absolutely embarrassed at what I was hearing. What I remembered as a very good performance now seemed like it was much worse. I noticed many things that I was unhappy with and wondered how I ever thought this was a good performance in any way.

That experience taught me that our perceptions change. As our ears become more sophisticated, more and more of what we do doesn't meet with our approval. It also taught me that what I think I sound like and what I actually sound like may be wildly different. I advise my students to regularly record themselves and listen to the results, just to get a sense of what they really sound like. It is important to have a firm grasp on what you really sound like, without depending on your perceptions of what that is while you're also trying to play. Listening to recordings of yourself can be most enlightening as long as you realize there is no way to critically evaluate sound quality. Everything else is clearly present and that is a ton of good information. Using this technique regularly will help you to better and more accurately hear yourself during performance. Like any skill, it can be learned.

Bob, my suggestion is to forget what other people think and just record yourself and keep working at it until you're pleased with the result. During that time, I would seek lessons with a good teacher and let them help you on your path to being the best player you can be. If you get to be any good at it, the gigs will come.

[bigbob]

Thank You for the expert advice, I go in and out of the same instructor for 20 years Eric Henry harrisburg orch) I havent taken a lesson in a year...I lost my top teeth in an accident...I play without them..I just can't get used to the dentures They want to fall out when I do low notes<s>I'll keep on practicing and listening till I think It's right ...That will help me create better works of art....BB