Unknown Maker

[imperialbari]

Dan's posting had me look at B&F instruments in my galleries. I found no direct matches to the La Sete, but an Eb tuba engraved Amati as well as B&F revealed that the horseshoe stoppers of same type as the Las Sete were used in Amati instruments, where Amati by definition is post-WWII.

The engraving is elaborate, but the lines are crude. Probably the fastest way of covering the open areas in a template. An operation that could have happened at the importer's shop.

Horn-u-copia has a page on Bohland & Fuchs:

http://www.horn-u-copia.net/Reference/d ... thisrec=43

Clearly written by a non-German speaker, but quite good. Underplaying that the Sudetendeutsche were forced out after WWII. A more detailed telling:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudetenlan ... rld_War_II

One maker, Johann Michl of Graslitz, is the only one I have seen who marked instruments made between 1938 and 1945 as made in Sudetengau. Gau was a term for a region within the nazi administrative system.

When did the La Sete stencil brand operate? If right after WWII, then this tuba may have been assembled from parts and fittings from the various makers forced into Amati. Making it very hard to give a definite ID.

Klaus

[J.c. Sherman]

Geez, Imperial... one episode of agraphia and you got kinda mean.

Of course I meant Graslitz... I was co-thinking about a discussion with someone at the NMM and crossed my threads.

Sheesh!

[bigtubby]

Thanks for all of the great input!

<SNIP>

When did the La Sete stencil brand operate? If right after WWII, then this tuba may have been assembled from parts and fittings from the various makers forced into Amati. Making it very hard to give a definite ID.

Klaus

From what I understand the La Sete brand was used in the 1950's and 1960's and that would fit in with your suggestion of early Amati.

Another similar possibility for the mixed cues: A fellow who owned what appears to be an identical instrument sent me a note suggesting that they may have been assembled in the States from parts. He also suggested that I call it a La Sete and be done with it which is what I will probably do.

It is a wonderful player even with the badly knackered leadpipe, I am anxious to play it after I replace that.

[imperialbari]

The thread looks like agreeing on Keilwerth not making tubas or any rotary valve instruments.

Looking at a couple of Keilwerth trumpet engravings made me see some similarities with the La Sete tuba engraving. That opens up for another potential maker's history for this tuba.

Keilwerth may have gotten a supplier's contract for all of the La Sete band instruments. Without tooling up for the large tuba parts like bells and branches, or even for rotary valves, they may have bought the parts in whatever degree of assembly from one or more makers and the finishing them up in their shop without much investment for their shop.

This scheme is still seen with some US small shop makers of high end horns. They buy bells and valves from German makers and then maybe do some custom designed leadpipes and branches plus the assembly themselves.

Klaus

[bigtubby]

<SNIP>
Looking at a couple of Keilwerth trumpet engravings made me see some similarities with the La Sete tuba engraving. That opens up for another potential maker's history for this tuba.
<SNIP>
Klaus

The similarities in engraving is something that I had noticed as well. Two in particular that seem even more ungainly than the one on my tuba:




Seems that either the La Sete importer was doing the stenciling or as you suggest, some middle man like Keilwerth.

An interesting aside is that the trumped was listed as LA SETE DE LUXE Elkhart Ind 158170 Brass Trumpet:
http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/LA-SETE-DE-LUXE-Elkhart-Ind-158170-Brass-Trumpet-13303282.html

That title was most likely written by someone with limited knowledge of brass instruments, implying to me that the horn is likely marked "Elkhart" somehow.

[imperialbari]

Resemblance between the engravings of two La Sete instruments may not tell very much. I find it more telling that there is a resemblance between the needle movements of parts of a Keilwerth Toneking trombone engraving and the needle behaviour in the La Sete tuba engraving, as that resemblance makes the Keilwerth factory likely as the common origin of the engraving.

Engraving b.jpg

The Toneking engraving has elements much more refined that the La Sete instruments. Where I see the resemblance is between the more crude parts of the lower end of the Toneking engraving and the general style of the La sete engraving. The Toneking engraving appears a bit less sharp due to the lacquer applied on top of it.

There are several Keilwerth instruments represented in my brass galleries.

Klaus

[Faylcon]

I have an identical one of these horns, complete with "La Sete" imprint. I bought mine in 1994 from the Tuba Exchange in Durham, NC. At the time, they indicated that it was at least 30 years old and the receipt lists it as a B&S. Will post photos and more info this evening.

[Faylcon]

Here are some shots of my horn, it's almost identical.

[Faylcon]

And the engraving (sorry for the quality, it's too shiny to photograph well).

IMG_0672.jpg

[bigtubby]

I have an identical one of these horns, complete with "La Sete" imprint. I bought mine in 1994 from the Tuba Exchange in Durham, NC. At the time, they indicated that it was at least 30 years old and the receipt lists it as a B&S. Will post photos and more info this evening.

A real beauty! I hope your shiny, purdy one plays as well as my tarnished, ugly one does.