Physical exercises improve volume?

[Biggs]

Um, so we completely missed the second half of my question.

Not at all, sir. From above:

If you eat 20,000 calories a day, your volume is virtually guaranteed to increase.

in particular, the volume you push out.

[ghmerrill]

I am a firm believer that weight training can increase your lung capacity.

This has traditionally been regarded as not possible -- until recently. Here's an article in the New England Journal of Medicine which reconsiders the "received view" that increase of lung tissue or lung regeneration in developed humans is not possible: http://pulmccm.org/2012/lung-cancer-rev ... us-belief/. But it's still pretty iffy.

However, even if it's true, it really isn't quite to the point here. A lot of confusion comes from talking about lung capacity because in this context "capacity" is an ambiguous term. If "capacity" means volume, then there is little or no evidence (modulo something like the citation above) that volume/capacity can be increased except perhaps through some arcane means such as the use of stem cells.

What pulmonologists talk about isn't an increase in volume or "capacity", but an increase in efficiency -- not an increase in what you have, but a better use of what you have. Exercise can definitely contribute to this, and so can things like the use of an "incentive spirometer" (though this is typically not used therapeutically to increase efficiency past a certain point).

(Aside from some basic research, I have some personal experience with these things, having a child -- now age 38! -- who has gone through four open heart surgeries and the usual pulmonological issues subsequent to those, most recently three years ago. But if you Google away for yourself, you'll see the same story emerging. There's no magic bullet here, but a gain in efficiency -- and performance -- can be achieved through several different approaches to an exercise regimen.)

[ginnboonmiller]

Ignore the jerks. The youtube clip you just posted sounds about a million times better than the last one you posted, so whatever you're doing, keep doing it.

As far as physical fitness is concerned -- yeah, of course, tuba playing is as much an athletic activity as an artistic one. Get/keep in shape and it's all easier. Your capacity is your capacity, and the volume you play at is a matter of practice.

And just know that there's not much point in being the loudest guy in the band. If you're too loud it just takes away from the rest of the band. If you want to be the loudest and most important guy in the group, get a microphone and take the front of the stage (which is what I did, and is cool, but isn't the only thing I do).

[Tuboss2]

Thanks man. Really do appreciate that. Been working real hard to get my tone cleaned up and sounding better. About how much volume am I belting out dynamics wise? I guess a FF-FFF. But I would appreciate more opinions. Thanks for the compliment.

[Tuboss2]

Bump

[NCSUSousa]

Since you're looking for a 'bump', here's my answer to the question:
If you're fat, and exercise leads you to lose that gut, then yes. You will reduce the overall volume consumed within your abdominal cavity by excess fat, which should make room for additional expansion of your lungs (up to your innate vital capacity).
Need a picture of this? Look at Dr Oz's books about weight loss and health. Specifically look up the 'omentum' (sp?). The pictures there are caricatures, but they get the point across and are easier to understand than Anatomy texts.

If you're already slim, then there's not much to be gained in terms of air capacity. Your lungs are what they are.
You can learn to make better use of your innate vital capacity by learning how to control your breath while doing other activities. As you improve the efficiency of your lungs and your control of your breathing, you will be able to use MORE of the air in there. This can be learned in a variety of ways (yoga, martial arts, swimming), not strictly by aerobic activities like running.

Remember that sound volume at the bell of your tuba is not only from air volume into the mouthpiece.
The embouchure plays the biggest role in your ability to control sound at a loud volume level.
Your air capacity (combined with your breath control) mostly impacts your ability to hold notes or phrases longer while remaining on pitch.

[Tuboss2]

Thanks. That got my think. But to avoid that Blat sound, a strong embourchure is required...so, I got a pretty strong embourchure, but I think strengthening it would prove to be even better. So..I'll look into what I can do. Any ideas?

[Tuboss2]

Thanks. That got my think. But to avoid that Blat sound, a strong embourchure is required...so, I got a pretty strong embourchure, but I think strengthening it would prove to be even better. So..I'll look into what I can do. Any ideas?

The exercise you're looking for is practice. If you don't have a teacher, find one to help you out, as we can only guess what's going on in poorly lit videos.

Sorry about the quality. It's not the best. But I don't have money for lessons.

[Tuboss2]

I'd bet that nearly everyone (who can now achieve a gorgeous/majestic type of sound when playing at upper volume levels) started out - years ago - with an ugly/blatty upper volume levels sound, and has worked for years to hone it into what it is today.

Part of it though (and I've grown weary of the "so-and-so sounds great on any horn with any mouthpiece" belief system), is equipment.

If there is an easily-perceivable difference between a $2000 copy and a $7000 real-deal, there is surely also a difference (and - obviously - carefully-chosen, because anyone can overcharge for a mediocre product) between a $7000 real-deal and a $20,000 real-deal as well.

So you believe equipment has something to do with it?

[NCSUSousa]

I'd bet that nearly everyone (who can now achieve a gorgeous/majestic type of sound when playing at upper volume levels) started out - years ago - with an ugly/blatty upper volume levels sound, and has worked for years to hone it into what it is today.

Part of it though (and I've grown weary of the "so-and-so sounds great on any horn with any mouthpiece" belief system), is equipment.

So you believe equipment has something to do with it?

In my experience, equipment can limit volume/tone. You can get more/better sound out of the better instrument.
We got more volume (without sacrificing tone) out of the Conn 20K sousas at NCSU compared to the old fiberglass instruments.
The same is true comparing a 3/4 top action King (don't remember the model #) to a Miraphone 186, Conn 20J or St Pete 202 (all 4/4 size instruments).
The other side of that coin - you can push a bad instrument and make it play really loud. It just won't sound as good.
Also, the smaller King is much easier for a beginner to play compared to the other instruments I've listed.

One other point - Bloke is correct about the development curve. I started out sounding BAD at high volume levels when I got back into playing a few years ago. Now, since I've been practicing regularly, I can play almost to the limits of my equipment with the kind of tone that I want to produce. I'm now almost as good as I was in college. Since I don't have an instructor, and it's just a hobby, it's taken me some time to get to where I am. Keep practicing with a purpose (3-5 times a week if you can) and you'll get there too.

[Tuboss2]

I'd bet that nearly everyone (who can now achieve a gorgeous/majestic type of sound when playing at upper volume levels) started out - years ago - with an ugly/blatty upper volume levels sound, and has worked for years to hone it into what it is today.

Part of it though (and I've grown weary of the "so-and-so sounds great on any horn with any mouthpiece" belief system), is equipment.

So you believe equipment has something to do with it?

In my experience, equipment can limit volume/tone. You can get more/better sound out of the better instrument.
We got more volume (without sacrificing tone) out of the Conn 20K sousas at NCSU compared to the old fiberglass instruments.
The same is true comparing a 3/4 top action King (don't remember the model #) to a Miraphone 186, Conn 20J or St Pete 202 (all 4/4 size instruments).
The other side of that coin - you can push a bad instrument and make it play really loud. It just won't sound as good.
Also, the smaller King is much easier for a beginner to play compared to the other instruments I've listed.

One other point - Bloke is correct about the development curve. I started out sounding BAD at high volume levels when I got back into playing a few years ago. Now, since I've been practicing regularly, I can play almost to the limits of my equipment with the kind of tone that I want to produce. I'm now almost as good as I was in college. Since I don't have an instructor, and it's just a hobby, it's taken me some time to get to where I am. Keep practicing with a purpose (3-5 times a week if you can) and you'll get there too.

Thanks man. As you said, it's an everyday process. Any exercises/drills you have that I practice with in order to get to where I want to be?

[Tuboss2]

More opinions always welcomed guys.

[NCSUSousa]

Thanks man. As you said, it's an everyday process. Any exercises/drills you have that I practice with in order to get to where I want to be?

Sorry for the slow reply. Out of the office yesterday.
I assume that you have a folder of music for your marching shows, or some kind of music that you're preparing for a concert.
Just keep practicing that music with MUSICALITY as your priority. Play up to your limits without losing your tone and you'll eventually see that your limits are far higher (and lower) than they once were.

Remember that a crescendo is only as good as your ability to start it VERY soft. It's the contrast from soft to loud that makes the loud sound feel louder to the listener.
Need an example - watch any action movie (one that you've seen before makes this easier to notice). Right before a big explosion, the sound level comes down. Even though the actors on screen look like they're talking normally, the sound is actually very soft in the theater. You don't notice it if you're engrossed in the movie. That soft sound level sets up the contrast to the loud BOOM. The sound engineers do it that way because otherwise, they'd have to make the boom too loud for the sound equipment to reproduce.

You can also apply dynamics to your etudes and scale studies. Since you already know how those sound at a steady volume level, try playing them with various dynamics. It helps you hear what you're doing to the music since you're already familiar with them. Doing a steady decrescendo while ascending a scale then a steady crescendo while descending the same scale (over 2-3 octaves) is one of the more difficult things I've found to practice. And yes, that one shows up in concert music somewhat often, so it's worth practicing.

[Tuboss2]

Thanks man. Something other then long tones. Even tho I do those as well.
Honestly; I'm seeing some improvements:tomorrow night we'll find after a week of working on this stuff...is my improvements coming to truth outside. Want to smear the other band with my sound. Probably a little immature thinking here, but I think it'd be fun, just to push my limits, and prove to my self I can cover a whole entire band up...even though that's not necessarily a good thing.

[Mitch]

According to my source*, it is simply not possible to increase lung capacity. As Pete and Brian mentioned, it is a matter of efficiency.

Think of it as a car. You can only put so much stuff or so many people in it. It has the engine it has, and will only go as fast as it will go. If the car is loaded down with 1,000 lbs of people and stuff, it isn't going to reach it's top speed so easily, it will take more time to brake, and your mpg will suffer. So, if an individual has extra weight that can be shed, it will aid playing. Your skin can only stretch so much, so if it is equally taxed, by visceral fat, for example, you will be limited by the amount of room into which the lungs can expand.

Empty the junk out, get rid of the extra 6 passengers, and you notice an immediate improvement in the car's performance.

Exercise counts where the muscles used in inspiration are concerned. If they are never taxed, they will not improve in performance. Similarly, if you never run, you can't run a marathon and expect a sub-6-minute mile. Exercises must be done if you hope to improve the strength of the muscles required for inspiration. They won't necessarily improve your efficiency by virtue of just playing the instrument.

As others have mentioned, you have the lung tissue you have. That will not change. You can work to improve the efficiency with which you use it.

Quick example (which may make you dizzy and won't produce lasting results in a single attempt): Find a regular (not the large-bore kind) drinking straw. Try to breathe through it at a normal rate for about 30 seconds to one minute. (I'm an asthmatic, so this doesn't feel weird to me, actually.) Then, if you're able to remain upright, start taking deep breaths through the straw. Do at least four, all the way in and all the way out. Timing isn't the issue at this point. Rest a moment, try four more. Rest a moment, repeat as you are able. You should notice muscles you probably hadn't before, just as your biceps get sore if you never do curls and pick up a 40-pounder. (Do this at your own risk.) Then pick up your horn. You will likely notice a difference. I do this exercise all the time (it's simple resistance) if I've been away from playing for any period of time, even a couple days.

*My source: Dr. Robert Bartlett, professor emeritus, University of Michigan School of Medicine; former chief, UM Medical Center Critical Care Unit; recipient, Medalion for Scientific Achievement, American Surgical Association; recipient, American College of Surgeons Jacobson Award; inventor, Extra-Corporeal Membrane Oxygenation (ECMO); inventor, incentive spirometer. (Also the guy who trained the team which once saved my life.) So, yes, the guy who invented the device/concept for other devices that many of you use says you can't increase capacity. I recognize some may disagree, but I'm stickin' with this guy.

[jorgeskid]

Breathing Gym

[Tuboss2]

Mitch, the breathing through the straw thing. Never thought of that. I'll likely think about it. And maybe give it a try when the time allows. Anyways, things are improving. One thing I'm stuck at. How can I blow through the resistance of the instrument? Weather it's my sousaphone or my tuba.

[jorgeskid]

The resistance of the horn isn't necessarily a bad thing. When you wind pattern, wind horn, buzz(free or with a mouthpiece), you're taking away the resistance that a lot of people use as a crutch. If you can make that stuff easy and relaxed, playing the horn should be no problem.