Flight case choice (Walt Johnson vs. Accord)

[AHynds]

Hello, one and all!

Within the next few months, I might be looking to buy a flight case for one of my instruments (for the curious, a Perantucci PT-22p Eb horn). I'm hoping to go to a summer course in Germany next August, and if I get in, I'll need a flight case for the trip overseas. I'm currently looking at either a Walt Johnson or Accord case. The pros of the WJ case seem to be relatively-cheap price and ability to pack the instrument inside the case with its gig bag. The benefits of the Accord case seem to be lighter weight and maneuverability (with corresponding decrease in flight checking fees), albeit with a much higher initial price tag. I haven't dealt with either one of these cases in person, so I'm just looking for a little input from those who have one or the other. Any info would be greatly appreciated!

Aaron H.

[tubalamb]

I emailed Walt Johnson just last month to find some replacement casters for a tuba case. He replied back that he's closed up shop and sent me to another supplier for the parts. I don't know if it was a temporary closure or permanent, but it may affect your decision.

FWIW, the Accord case is at the top of my list when I buy my next case.

[AHynds]

Well, that would certainly put a hamper in this whole process. Thanks for the info! I'll have to check out the specs and prices for the Accord case, to see if it would be easier just to go with them.

Aaron H.

[Eflatdoubler]

You might Google case manufacturers in your area. A friend of mine had an anvil style flight case made for his instrument and he got to design it. The up side is if anything breaks you can have it repaired locally...
Great choice in tuba by the way!
Out of curiosity- what bag do you have for it now? I have the same tuba, and got a Cronkhite case made.
I would love to hear what you decide on!

[Rotaryclub]

Let me share my experiences with Walt Johnson and gig bag in flight case. Originally ordered for a PT-15 (I hadn't thought of the bag in a case thing) the horn flopped around in there so much that I simply removed a couple of corner pieces and the bag (Cronkhite) fit snug. A dumb luck miracle and the only way to travel. After years of airline abuse the case was destroyed and I needed another one. Turns out it happened to be 2 inches of foam all around every side for a perfect fit and I wanted the new one built just like that. They would not-I repeat-would not agree to do that no matter how I tried to reason with them. Even though I was giving them $1200 of my (or the gov.s money actually) they would not build it to a customer's preference. They would only accept the dimensions from their form.

When It came it was much different than the original (both cases built for the exact same horn). There was more padding around the bottom but zero-ZERO-padding on the top half lid where the valves lay. Just a sheet of the black velvet. I am going to need to rip all padding out of the new one and replace it with the padding ripped out of the old one, but of course I new I would have to do that anyway. When budget money comes sometimes you have to act immediately and I am familiar with this case so I went there again, but if it was my own money, no way would I go with WJ.

BTW a couple of years ago when my case was near death I tried to get a new one and had so much trouble getting someone to contact me that I gave up (however most recently this was not the case).

So If you think you'd get lucky with the interior fit, or don't mind building it yourself then it's a great flight case. I can't recommend highly enough making sure your bag fits in the flight case. It's so nice to get to a place and then just tote your gig bag around. Have fun!

[joh_tuba]

For the reasons that Bloke suggests PLUS the fact that Walt is at an age in which retirement is attractive it's not surprising that the Walt Johnson cases would cease production(assuming that's really the case). If I were Walt I'd be tempted to sell the business but maybe that's easier said than done.

Accord, on the other hand, has a legitimately superior product and has gotten around *some* of the challenges of a custom case by using a modular foam and velcro system to allow the customer to adjust the interior to their horn. In addition, their labor costs are likely much lower because they manufacture in eastern Europe. The problem with the US distributor is that they are a string shop that has no interest in serving tuba players.. particularly when the tuba cases have so many options and dimensions to keep track of.. other instrument cases are a lot more straightforward. You really are much better off contacting Accord directly if you want their case.

To answer/concur with the original post question:
Plenty of used Walt Johnson cases are floating around for what I consider to be *extremely* fair prices... on a budget a used Walt is a great deal for ultimate protection OR work a summer job and pinch pennies for an Accord. I've seen both in person, the Johnson cases are bullet proof and you'll fly with confidence that your horn won't have problems. The Accord costs more BUT are a lot easier to move around with. The carbon fiber halves flex, which gives the impression that it's floppy and fragile BUT when closed the structure becomes very rigid. The lighter weight should translate to lower airline fees BUT also means it's easier for the luggage gorillas to toss your horn higher into the air. It's important that you give a lot of thought and attention to how you adjust the foam interior to keep your horn safely 'suspended' in the case. If you can swing the massive funds it's worth the price. Go for the backpack option and you could potentially live without a gig bag.

[ds_le_moulin]

I am also interested in that flight-case matter... I have never seen a recent accord case (I had a bad experiment 6-7 years ago with them). And I am worried about the padding at the bottom and in the top (lid ?).

I have such one : http://www.melton-meinl-weston.com/faq- ... plane.html" target="_blank - for my F. It's doing the job really well. But they need my horn for making the inner fitting. (Injected foam...) So I would need to go 2 days in Münich for that...

I have the ''trouble'' of believing what I see (and touch ) Does anyone has a recent accord case and could make pics of the padding ?

[cambrook]

You might search for posts by "tubajoe" about his experience with his Accord case.....

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=46462

[AHynds]

Thanks for the replies, everyone! I'm going to keep doing some research, but if I can swing the money, I might try and get an order placed for an Accord case. It's a steep chunk of change up front, but it seems like it would pay off in the long run. I'd rather pay a larger amount of money for something that will last longer in the end.

Aaron H.

[joh_tuba]

Bloke's advice is sadly spot on.

I've flown with a tuba in a cardboard box lined with 2 inches of pink foam on all sides from Home Depot. Ball inside bell. Tuba in gig bag and air pillows all around to keep it from jostling too much. That was an EXTREMELY solid box with the foam adding a lot of structural rigidity. Arrived on the other side of an ocean unscathed.. although the TSA folks did manage to not retape the box particularly well. :/

Also, he's right that you'll likely trade tubas a few times despite your intentions.. which is simultaneously a great argument to wait a bit to buy a flight case but ALSO an argument for buying an Accord when it's time. Their interior is modular and as long as it fits inside the shell you'll be able to fit other models of tubas in the future.

Also also, the Walt Johnsons on the used market are very nearly bullet proof and priced at a point that makes getting your money back out of them not a big deal. An argument could be made for going that route until you really do have your 'forever' tuba and then using the sell of the Walt to fund an Accord.

joh 'probably not helping' tuba

[Donn]

Were I to fly with a tuba, I would do just as I've advised to others here and use a combination of an inflatable child's ball, generous bubble wrap, a regular gig bag, links-and-links of "packing pillows", and a very sturdy cardboard carton (big enough, but not way over-big...a few inches extra in every direction...the classic "Miraphone" carton, probably). I'd take a roll of tape with me, and use the carton to get from place-to-place, and use the bag when traveling locally at various destinations. I believe this to be safer than any case, and not too many pounds heavier than a "Miraclone-priced" carbon fiber case.

I don't even have a gig bag any more, my qualifications here are limited to one unsuccessful attempt to travel with a bari sax, which has similar vulnerability but even worse than the tuba. It's almost impossible to devise effective support padding inside the box, and any flex to the body of the bari makes it unplayable and hard to fix.

We're going on a couple trips this year, and I just won't take my bari, but if I had to do it again, somewhat in line with the above I would pack it in a way that looks fragile on the outside, has the most effective possible support inside, and adds minimum weight to the total package. Look up baggage weight limits for the airline and route you'll be flying - you could be stuck with a package they won't take even for extra money. But even if they'll take it, a gratuitously heavy package is much more likely to be treated rough.

That's why I'd want something that looks delicate, there's at least a chance that baggage handlers will take a little mercy on it. I've read that a German maker puts big expensive instruments in a flimsy, cheap wood crate for shipment overseas, because when it's beat up, it shows it right away.

As you know if you've read up, damage to the instrument is rarely from the outside, like something poking its way through the case shell. The proximate cause of the smashed bell etc. is the tuba itself, throwing its weight against the case wall. The case will often look just fine - its strength and rigidity doesn't help here, could even make it worse.

What we haven't addressed here, though, is that your baggage will be opened by security before it goes on the airplane. They have to go through a lot of stuff pretty fast, and historically things can go wrong here - they break something, they don't pack it back exactly the way it was, they don't get it closed up right, etc. Have this in mind when packing. Don't put a mouthpiece in the case, for example - after they're done, the mouthpiece will end up loose in the case where it can hammer dents into the tuba. If you use packing pillows, I'd guess the best thing is to tape them up vigorously, hoping that the inspector will be deterred from removing them from the instrument -- but don't tape the beach ball, because he or she will want to look in there. Make it easy for them to do their job, hard for them to mess you up.

[Mark]

You can save all the hassle of boxes or flight cases by leasing or buying your own plane.

[joh_tuba]

I really should stop interjecting in this thread but apparently I can't help myself..

It's my humble opinion that one of the pros(as long as it's not so heavy that the airlines won't take it at all) of the Walt Johnson case *is* the weight. They are not easy to throw long distances. I once watched out the window as a luggage gorilla reared up and made a valiant effort to see how far he could toss my horn.. it moved about two inches.. at which point he gingerly lifted it by the handle and rolled it to its destination like a decent human being.

That said, a large cardboard box by nature of the size, shape, and lack of handles doesn't invite tossing either.

joh 'still not helping' tuba

[joh_tuba]

Yeah.... My PT6 in the WJ case is 75lbs.

You have to watch it. The smaller WJ cases don't push so close to that weight limit.

[Donn]

Speaking of limits, probably worth mentioning the size limits. The no-charge limit for checked baggage seems to be typically 62", length+width+height, which is not going to get you much tuba. Past that, I'm having to dig a little for details, but Delta gives you an extended special case limit because it's a musical instrument, so 115" rather than 80" -- but I think still with a $200 extra charge, and it goes `space available', ideally on your flight but maybe not. (This may actually be an advantage, if it means they wouldn't put it on first and pile everything else on top, but it can be a drag if it really goes on a later flight.) And I bet 115" will go pretty fast when you're trying to fit a tuba in it.

[joh_tuba]

No tuba will fit inside 62" unless you do the Baadsvik solution: http://www.lowbrassmusic.com/blog/traveltuba/

BUT! Even the largest tuba cases would have to work to exceed 115".

A 2'x2'x4' box would easily handle a very large tuba and would be 96".