Quintessential old school piston valve BBb tuba

[dmmorris]

I grew up playing school owned tubas: the old 60s-70s King 2341 4-valve and later in college, a Besson 3-valve comp' tuba....both in BBb. I loved them both. The King had a wonderful tone and a nice even reliable response, but had that stupid detachable bell. The Besson was such a plain-Jane but was a Mirafone slayer even without the 4th valve, ..... it would fit so nice into any ensemble big or small. I also played the Conn 2XJ, but never really liked their "fluffy" sound.

Discussion: What other old school piston valved tubas have stood the test of time and which would you still consider owning today, and why. Or are the King and the Besson the best out there in terms of old school piston tubas?

[bort]

Olds O99 -- not a large tuba, but fun to play and sounds nice. Certainly an appropriate instrument to learn on early in your tuba life.

I owned one for a few years -- it was damaged and missing a valve, and my HS band director gave it to me for free if I promised to make it playable. I spent $800 on the repairs and ended up with a decent sounding and nice sized tuba. I later sold it for $700, so effectively, my first tuba cost me $100, not too bad. I sort of wish I still had it, since it has a nice story to it, plus was just fun to play.

[Chuck Jackson]

There were a couple of satin silver Conn pre-10J equivalents in my HS. I still look for one of those today. 10J is a good, solid tuba.

+1.

I started on one of these in 1972 and it, along with any of Besson 3 valve compensators I played, have been the best tubas I ever played. During my career I played Alex's and Rudy's CC's almost exclusively (along with a 4 Piston/1 Rotor Marzan that got totaled in a car accident), and I can honestly say that those particular tubas were more "high maintanance" to play in terms of mouthpiece temperment and in tuneness, than either of the aforementioned BBb's. The Besson's I had played were perfectly in tune (albeit with almost no latitude for false tones, but that was probably me) and the Conn had a glorious sound for a smaller instrument. I also have never met an Olds O-99 I didn't like, but have never played a King that suited me (again, that is more me than the horn).

Chuck"a walk down memory lane"Jackson

[EdFirth]

Around 1973 I accompanyed one of my section mates from the West Point band to his home in Woodbine, Iowa. His family owned a farm and it was all pretty rural. We went to his old high school and lo and behold there were 15 of those big Holtons.(345's?). They were all three valvers and played as well as any horn I've encountered. And they had been taken good care of. Also, although they stopped manufacture around 1959, Martins. If they are alligned correctly they're almost magical There have to be some still out there in the dark dusty corners of bandrooms.Ed

[EdFirth]

That's what I remember them looking like. Do tou know where there are some? Ed

[iiipopes]

Until I was a junior in high school, when my school finally had the funding to purchase King 4-valve tubas, for a generation before that, my school purchased King sousaphones to do double-duty on the field and in concert. They were great. Instead of purchasing 3/4 tubas, my director purchased a Wenger souzy chair for junior high with one of the King souzys so the player would get used to a standard sized instrument as soon as possible. With a modicum of care, they were almost bullet proof. We had a tradition of doing well at state contest, with almost 30 "I" ratings in a row, and quite contrary to how it is perceived that students take care of horns now, it was our section leader who would do the inspections to make sure each person's horn was clean, had a shiny-white bell and mechanically well maintained. As a incoming freshman, we were issued one horn. That horn, no matter where it was on the age/condition scale, was your horn until you graduated, and it was your responsibility to keep it maintained. Accidents were taken care of by the school; preventable damage was assessed to the parents and enforced. Say what you will, the system worked well. Better players were rewarded by chair assignments and recognition at our annual band banquet. Horns were not "passed down." I had the oldest horn. I didn't care. I scrubbed it until it was whiter than the newer horns. I worked my @$$ off practicing both playing and marching. My reward was bandsman of the year as a senior. As each year progressed, the seniors graduated, and I worked my way up the section, it was something to use to impress the underclassmen, the gist being - "I can play this well with this old horn - you have a newer horn in better condition - what's your problem?"

[Dan Schultz]

The model numbers of those great King tubas are often confused. Those produced before June of 1980 were 1240/41 tubas. The 2340/41 was basically a model number change after June of 1980 that incorporated a couple of minor manufacturing changes. The detachable bell continued for several years after the model change.

My first experience with a tuba was in 1956 at the age of ten. It was a Conn three-valved Eb. In junior high and high school I always played three-valved BBb sousaphones. Even when I left The Navy in 1968, I still did not have any experience with four-valved horns. These were just small 'command bands'.

I didn't pick up a tuba again until 1998. At that time... I had no concept of four or five-valved horns. I bought a top-action, three-valved Eb Holton that didn't take very long to outgrow.

These days... I think the epitome of grade/middle school tubas would be the Conn 15J... three front-action pistons. For high school... the Yamaha YBB-321 (four top-action pistons) or the modern King 2341 with the fixed upright bell would prevail.

[toobagrowl]

Back in high school we had all King BBb sousaphones -- all in silverplate. One of them was a King "Giant" sousa with the bigger bell, body, and valve bore with longer piston stroke. Loved playing that thing The other Kings were the regular 4/4 models -- 3 of them UMI Kings, one of them an HN White model - like the King Giant. 5 King sousaphones all together used for marching band AND concert band The sound and intonation were superb on those horns. I still have very fond memories playing those King sousas. There was also a Besson bell-front BBb tuba that was usually used by someone during concert season.

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My first year of college, I played an old satin-silver King 1241 with the big detachable 22" bell. I played a couple other BBb tubas that year -- a Musica BBb (Cerveny 681) & an old M-W 20 BBb. I used the King 1241 the most though, until one of the valve stems got bent somehow I still don't know how it happened I remember it having a sweet sound, even response, and built like a tank. The intonation was quite good, but not perfect --- the 6th open partial F was a bit sharp, and I remember the Eb just below the staff being flat, which is unusual on BBb tubas as most BBb tubas tend to be sharp on that note. I also found it somewhat easy to 'blat' in the low register due to the smallish bore if I wasn't careful. The thing I didn't like about the 1241 is that the top slides (sans 2nd slide) were fixed in place - you could only pull the lower slides. Seems UMI fixed this issue with the later 2341 models.
So, in my experience, I found the overall pitch and sound actually better on the King BBb sousas.

[fairweathertuba]

I've had experience with the King 1241 and 1240 tubas. Good, easy and fun to play usually excellent intonation with only a few adjustment necessary. Conn 20J's are also very nice in their own way, ridiculous fat tone at a budget price. Some of the 20j's are real stinkers though so look out.

There is of course a huge number of other BBb tubas that are as good or even much better depending on what you are after. I am not extremely familiar with the old Marzan, Boehm Meinl instruments but I did play a couple that I really enjoyed. (just for a few minutes though)