5th Valve Question

[TubaZac2012]

So I'm curious what it takes to put on a 5th valve. I'm currently in the process of getting a new horn, and it's a Big BBb, with 4 piston valves. So I'm curious how I could put a 5th valve on her. The process in which it takes to do that, and what not.

Or,

How much it would cost to buy a 5th rotar and have it professionally put on? I have the repairman in mind, just curious what the going rate would be.

Just trying to get some thoughts and ideas

Thanks in advance,
Zac

[cambrook]

I have the repairman in mind, just curious what the going rate would be.

Then just ask him, not everyone else....

[bort]

Maybe $1500 or so? Not usually worth it...

[The Big Ben]

"The Elephant" posted a comprehensive rebuild he did on a big Holton in the last few months. Search for it and you can see what would be involved. He is a trained repair tech and was able to do a great job himself.

[Ben]

Maybe $1500 or so? Not usually worth it...

This seems to be my recollection also. At one point I purchased (new from Alexander) all of the pieces to add a 6th to my F, that cost me ~$1000. I still have yet to finance the professional labor. I've never had the window align when I could let the horn go for an extended time coincide with the schedule of the repair man.

[iiipopes]

With the cost as it is, a person is better off selling a 4-valve horn and purchasing a 5-valve horn.

[Bob Kolada]

What model horn is it?

[Uncle Buck]

Consider something like the examples in this thread instead.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=54116" target="_blank

[joh_tuba]

Might be pushing this thread off topic BUT in my opinion the optimal configuration short of a Dr. Young double tuba solution is:
Five valves with the fifth tuned as a double whole-step(old Miraphone system) *and* a main tuning slide kicker sprung to move both directions.

The longer than standard fifth valve tuning gives you ALL the improved intonation of a six valve tuba sans ONE note(which is within about 10 cents of the six valve alternative). On a theoretically acoustically perfect F tuba ALL the notes would be within 1/2" slide pull of perfect intonation(AND you have a fingering for pedal F for 'the lick' in the V. Williams). Since we often need to tune within a chord or match an out of tuner neighbor having a hand free to move the main slide kicker is far more ideal than searching for an alternate fingering or lipping.

My opinion... but this is exactly the solution I've built for my tuba.

[TubaZac2012]

It's a Holton 345. I haven't decided if I want to do it yet, just getting some pricing and knowledge about it.

Thanks keep it coming,
Zac

[TubaZac2012]

I have one, but it's also the same horn that's on Dillon's. Here's the link to the picture of the horn: https://www.dillonmusic.com/p-20836-hol ... 5-bbb.aspx" target="_blank

It's not that i have to have it, I just think it'd be a nice plus to an already remarkable instrument.

Thanks again,
Zac

[TubaZac2012]

Might be pushing this thread off topic BUT in my opinion the optimal configuration short of a Dr. Young double tuba solution is:
Five valves with the fifth tuned as a double whole-step(old Miraphone system) *and* a main tuning slide kicker sprung to move both directions.

The longer than standard fifth valve tuning gives you ALL the improved intonation of a six valve tuba sans ONE note(which is within about 10 cents of the six valve alternative). On a theoretically acoustically perfect F tuba ALL the notes would be within 1/2" slide pull of perfect intonation(AND you have a fingering for pedal F for 'the lick' in the V. Williams). Since we often need to tune within a chord or match an out of tuner neighbor having a hand free to move the main slide kicker is far more ideal than searching for an alternate fingering or lipping.

My opinion... but this is exactly the solution I've built for my tuba.

Can I see your horn? Post a picture on the thread, I'm interested to see it.

[roweenie]

Exactly how handy are you? Such a project is not for the faint of heart (or light of wallet).

On a recent 5th valve project on a York BBb, I ordered a 20.5 mm (I.D.) rotor valve from Meinlschmidt in Germany. Total cost for the valve and shipping (and bank fee, most German firms will only accept a bank transfer) came to about $380, and they threw in 4 ferrules for free. They will also sell you the corresponding size inner and outer tubing (by weight, not length), but since I didn't buy from them, I can't tell you the price.

If you end up using a 20.5 mm valve (as I did) some of the bent tubing can be had from Yamaha (the bore size on the YBB-641 is very close at 20.62 (.807 vs .812). But it is NOT cheap!

I don't know if the Holton 345 is similar in bore at that point (directly after the "dogleg"), but I've got to assume it's very close. That would be a pretty likely spot to put it. (Wade, what size valve did you use on your Holton?)

This doesn't even start to touch the topic of tools, workspace, consumables (solder, flux, acetylene, etc.).

One word of advice - if you do embark on such a project, DO NOT under any circumstances alter or destroy any original parts - you may need them to put It back as it was, and Holton doesn't make replacement parts anymore (unfortunately).

[roweenie]

On a side note, I'd be curious to see a double-whole-step fingering chart (if available)

[Art Hovey]

See Example 3 on this webpage:

http://www.galvanizedjazz.com/tuba/5thvalve.html

[TubaZac2012]

Well, I talked to Matt Walters today about the Holton I'm looking to purchase, and he said that the Holton had a marvelous falsetone B or Cb, so there's no real need to add a 5th valve, he also quoted me a $1500 quote, that's what he would charge, but he has so much o do it'd take him 2 years to get o it. So instead, I'm just gonna purchase the horn as is, and play it. I was really just trying to gather info about it, so thanks to all who chimbed in, if you wish to continue talking about the pros, and cons of the 5thvalve, feel free.

Thanks again,
Zac

[roweenie]

Does anyone have any information on what the length would be of a double whole step circuit (as found on the Miraphone)? I'm assuming it would not be as simple as adding the length of the 2nd and 3rd valve circuits....

Instrument key is not as important to know as is its length compared to that of the first valve (a ratio that then can be extrapolated be used for other key instruments).