MM 4 valve sousaphone questions

[BBbmarcher]

http://tubamm.com/sousaphones.html" target="_blank

Model: MM-MB 140L Sousaphone

From what I hear, this is a 4 valve short action sousaphone. As far as I know Conn never made a 4 valve short action version. Does anyone know whether this horn is truly short action or what model they copied this off of? The dimensions and the wrap around the valve cluster are identical to the their 3 vavle 20K clone, which makes me believe it is 4 short action pistons. If they bothered to take the time to invent this horn, they should've used it to clone the 25J instead.

Anyone ever played one of these can comment on them?

Thanks.

BBbmarcher

[BBbmarcher]

Wouldn't mind showing off the bling (and hopefully decently playability and valve quality) of a brand new 25J clone without the $4-6K complete restoration pricetag. Also would be good for ordering spare parts if ever need be.

[Dan Schultz]

..... Also would be good for ordering spare parts if ever need be.

This might be a 'clone'. But.... don't count on ANY parts interchanging.

[BBbmarcher]

Do they do that on purpose to prevent people from buying originals or is it just lack of exactness?

[BBbmarcher]

From the Chinese horns I've tried, they look great and play at least decent but most of their valves have issues after a limited period of use. Most their piston horns do anyways. Never tried a rotary one and was hoping it would be more durable.

[David Richoux]

It is very difficult to be sure from the pictures - they have been taken at different angles and somewhat low resolution.

[BBbmarcher]

Would doubt it's a 40K clone. The branches don't look nearly wide enough. Leaning more towards a semi-original design unless someone proves me wrong.

[Wyvern]

From what I hear, this is a 4 valve short action sousaphone. As far as I know Conn never made a 4 valve short action version. Does anyone know whether this horn is truly short action or what model they copied this off of?

I can't tell you what it is based on, but it does not have short action valves. The Chinese short action valve sousaphone (based on 20K) comes from a different factory.

[BBbmarcher]

I was wondering if they didn't offer the offset valves on purpose as it could potentially introduce uneven surface wear depending on the player's valve pushing tendencies.

[Wyvern]

The more I think about it, the more likely it seems that the Chinese make the 4-valve version short-action as well. It would cost a lot more money to do otherwise...and the Chinese short-action pistons are not as large in diameter as the Conn short-action pistons. Further, the Chinese short-action pistons do not feature offset valve stems.

We have had these 4-valve sousaphone in stock and they do not have short action valves

[BBbmarcher]

That's a bummer to hear. No 4 short action pistons.

[Wyvern]

That's a bummer to hear. No 4 short action pistons.

I will check when over at the factory in July, but unless a recent development, the answer is unfortunately no.

[BBbmarcher]

Actually what would be the wildest dream is if they start cloning the 25J (4 short action top action) or 27J (4 short action front action) and sell them at reasonable prices. I'm surprised no one has approached them with this idea yet given that they are fairly popular, at least in the US. Thanks.

[BBbmarcher]

But they need to add a spit valve to the loop coming directly out of the 4 valve tubing. The way it's currently designed, you have to flip the horn 150 clockwise and then 150 counterclockwise (from the rear) to get the spit out from the 4th valve slide. Just a thought.

[BBbmarcher]

Is that what causes the pistons to stick? Is there is DIY way to clean out the crap? One of my Chinese horns is starting to have sticking pistons that don't seem to go away with cleaning. But mysteriously another one of mine was sticking and then all or a sudden just became buttery smooth one day without me knowingly doing anything special to it. As such I'm convinced that Chinese horns CAN in theory have long lasting smooth pistons. By the way, the pistons on the "buttery smooth" horn have had almost all nickel plating worn away ironically and the one that is starting to stick more and more is supposed to be made of Monel alloy but is also starting to corrode. Obviously I'm taking the Monel statement with a grain of salt.

[BBbmarcher]

Sticking that comes back soon after cleaning valve and casing in detergent and warm water to put it more accurately. However, the valves worked beautifully up until recently and the horn was bought new less than a year ago.