Why don't you own a 5/4 or 6/4?

[Ben]

I find a larger horn allows me to play louder with good/consistent tone.

(lots of other opinions that I'll keep to myself)

[FreeBandMusic]

How many do you play in quintet? We did maybe 20 or 30 every year, for several years. We did a LOTS of weddings and receptions, store openings, art shows, church services, all sorts of things.

I had a larger Cervany Bb; it nice a big sound, great community band. I spent five years holding back, playing pp and still covering the group. Worst, I could really play with any expression, playing with excitement, even something like a peppy walking bass part.

For our quintet, most of our gigs were were set in small venues, not huge concert halls. Worse, half of the gigs were so also background music for some event. It was just too much.

I found a smaller 4 valve Eb Martin; now I could balance the group with ease, punching on the jazz stuff like everyone in the group, bouncing along with the walking bass.

Now I have a Miraphone 186; it works fine for Concert band and quintet.

[Radar]

This may sound like a dumb question, but how amateur players really have to deal with reasons 2 and 3? Do amateurs really have the opportunity to play in quintets and perform solos a lot? I know I don't.... In the last 5 years I have only played with small ensembles (quintets) twice and performed a duet (solo) once. But I have performed in 120 plus concerts with concert bands.

Many amateurs (and semi-pros, and pros as well) play in small ensembles in churches on a fairly regular basis. There is a lot of opportunity for church playing in most cities.

[The Bone Ranger]

Why don't you own a 5/4 or 6/4?

It would be a luxury for me. I get called for freelance work in small orchestras, brass quintets, and bands in a small city, and infrequently compared to my gigs on trombone, so the chances of me needing a horn of that size to make money are slim. My Rudy 3/4 CC will cover most of those things.

Also, adding another horn to the my practice routine (2 tenors, 1 bass and tuba) will complicate an already complicated situation. I need to be in good shape ASAP if I haven't picked up a horn for a while, so the more familiar I am with each horn, the better. Since there's not many gigs that the Rudy won't cut, more face time = more accuracy.

The big horns sure are fun in the practice room or on the right gig, but for me, a horn would have to come along for an absolute steal, and then be sitting in it's box for long stretches at a time, as it's well down the pecking order in usability for me.

Andrew (still looking at garage sales for that $500 Holton 6/4)

[Donn]

Even I have played a quintet show or two, as a sub. (And not in church.) I suppose it was on a 5/4 tuba, too - older BBb 190, which I eventually sold - but the tuba still plays with that quintet as far as I know.

[Z-Tuba Dude]

It seems to me that nobody really "needs" a 6/4 horn. There is nothing that you would play on a BAT that can not be done on a smaller horn (witness: Roger Bobo, the Los Angeles Phil, and his Miraphone 184).

As was mentioned, measured in sheer decibels, the BATs are no more effective than a smaller horn. The 6/4 horn does produce a "broad" tone quality that you can not get out of a smaller horn, so the difference is not in the loudness, but the "fatness" of sound.

That "fatness" is not welcomed everywhere.

[swillafew]

I look for a horn that I can fit in a car, fit through a door without picking up a new dent, and lift in a hard case without killing myself. Getting the horn home in the car is fundamental.

[ScottM]

I am a 3/4 size person so a bat doesn't make sense for me. My 4/4 is almost more than I want to handle.
ScottM
184-5u
PT20P

[bort]

I have a Rudy 4/4... which I guess is almost a 5/4? Actually, it's been damaged or in the shop the entire time I've had it, so I haven't really had a chance to evaluate it's perceived size.

But I really don't care about that stuff either. It's big enough, but not too big. Works for me!

[Rick Denney]

For some reason, this is the thread that caught my attention on this infrequent drive-by visit of Tubenet, heh.

I do own a 5/4 and a 6/4. The reason I do is I like the sounds I produce on them, relative to other choices also played by me.

To respond to some comments...

A 6/4 tuba is not really louder than a 4/4 tuba, depending on the specific instruments in question. I doubt I can play my Holton 345 louder than my Miraphone 186. But at any given loudness, the Holton sound is much deeper (not lower, and NOT "richer in fundamental", which is a misnomer) and broader. It creates a presence that the Miraphone does not. And it's that difference in quality of sound that makes it unsuitable for most quintets. (I said most quintets--the CSO quintet would be one obvious exception.) But even when Jacobs was playing the CSO York with the CSO Brass Quintet, his sound was much broader than the other instruments. It was right on for some quintet compositions where the tuba acts as an independent voice, and just plain wrong for others where the tuba is usually paired with the trombone (or where the fifth part is really written for a bass trombone).

As an amateur, I play in a quintet routinely. I use an F tuba, which can do reasonable duty for most quintet compositions. But, occasionally, I still prefer even the big Holton if it's a certain kind of jazz composition, particularly if the tuba part is a walking bass line.

My Holton will play as softly as any of my tubas. But it cannot make a narrow, small sound. Even when played softly, the sound is deep and wide. Trying to play a big tuba softly in quintet is probably a mistake. I would rather use a really crisp-sounding cup-shaped mouthpiece if that was the instrument I had to use.

Speaking of mouthpieces, big tubas do not need toilet-bowl mouthpieces. I have played funnel mouthpieces on the Miraphone in part to control my tendency to hurt people with that instrument. But it just makes a big tuba fuzzy and woofy. For that instrument, I've been playing one of Bloke's mouthpieces, which is actually not particularly large. It also has a Geibish cup shape and a moderate throat, both of which provide a good bit of resistance, which is good with a horn that doesn't have much of its own.

With all that said, big tubas are great for older players who need to make the air they have do as much as possible. But some versions weren't made for efficiency, they were made for a horse of a player to get as much as possible out of his horse lungs. So, some big tubas are hard to blow for the weak of air, but the classic York-style tubas are not so. Holtons may go either way, given their general inconsistency. Mine is an old man's tuba, to use Jacobs's phrase. Something like a Deck-model 2165 is the opposite extreme for those who lack Deck's abilities. Efficiency is not assured with a big tuba.

I would not own the Holton as my only tuba, and some in this thread can only own one instrument. But if I could only own two tubas, the Holton would be one of them (and the B&S F tuba would be the other one). Those fit my two use cases: Concert band and brass quintet. If I was studying performance in college (which would require far more than any tuba could provide), I might get a no-compromise Eb or F as my primary instrument, given the emphasis on recitals and solo performance. And then maybe add something affordable for larger ensembles, maybe even a Bb. My suspicion is that a college player who can make a good orchestral F tuba work in an orchestra will go further than one who needs a grand orchestral contrabass to get the job done.

Rick "stopping in for a visit" Denney

[Mark Horne]

I am fortunate enough to own both a 5/4 and a 6/4 in addition to a compact 4/4 to meet my tuba playing needs.

The Alexander 163 - effectively a 5/4 when compared to the 4/4 standard Miraphone 186, is one of the few instruments that I have purchased brand new, so it is used only for indoor concerts where I can be at least somewhat assured that it will not be subjected to damage (so far so good). It gets a great sound for symphonic band - lots of impact with just the right amount of detail with a geib-style mouthpiece. It's not the easiest tuba to play in the middle of the staff - the D and Db like to play flat, and alternate fingerings are tough to slot.

The Neptune is used for situations where a big sound is required - it plays similarly to the Alex, but has "more bass" as Bloke once described about a piston model he had for sale. I found that description quite apt, as it applies to my Neptune as well.

I have found the PT3 - a compactly-wrapped 4/4, to be especially useful. I use it anywhere where space is tight or there is a long schlep from parking, or if I am doubling on another instrument. It isn't light, but it sounds bigger than a 186 to me, and it will deliver a nice edge when pushed - helping it to cut through a dense mix.