Yamaha Tubas

[Ferguson]

Yamaha does research the market, and makes sure they aren't the low price leader in any category of instrument. They figure their products are worth a premium price, and want them to sell on the merits of the instrument.

Also, the 641 includes a hard case at that price, and the Miraphone does not. Yamaha offers a bit better parts availability and a more inclusive warranty. I could see some buyers saying that the 641 at about $1K more is still a fair price.

Ferguson
/seems a bit high to me

[nycbone]

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[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

I believe that German manufacturing costs/tariffs are much higher than those of Japan, which is why a Volkswagen is far more expensive than a Honda of about equal quality (no car brand fighting, please). That's why it really doesn't make sense that the Japanese would charge more for a ripped off design.

[nycbone]

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[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Eh...I'm not pretending to know anything about cars. The important thing is that Yamahas should be cheaper as they are usually copies of other manufacturers' instruments, and Asian manufacturing generally costs less than German. I just can't fathom how very much these tubas cost, considering the fact that the corresponding models of Miraphones or Meinls are just better. Besides, if you look at the info on the 641, Yamaha openly admits to copying the designs of Miraphone, Meinl-Weston, and Cerveny. I just can't really see any reason to cough up so much dough for yet another Asian copy of a European instrument (JinBao, anyone?).

[nycbone]

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[Dan Schultz]

Yamaha does research the market, and makes sure they aren't the low price leader in any category of instrument. They figure their products are worth a premium price, and want them to sell on the merits of the instrument......

Every manufacturer/service should take it upon themselves to know what the market will bear and price their products accordingly.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Does anybody else think Yamaha is similar to JinBao? Both make both beautiful Asian instruments that are copies of European instruments, and each particular instrument varies vastly from other instruments of the exact same model. Furthermore, the Elephant and I agree that some of their models are awful and some good. There's just too much variance for my liking.

[pecktime]

I have no knowledge of Yamah tubas, but in the saxophone word Yamaha is seen as the most consistent maker and is one of the 'big 4' along with Keilwerth (Germany), Selmer (French) and Yanagisawa (Japan).

[WC8KCY]

I find myself in total agreement with the elephant on the 103, 201, 321, and 641--in particular, the YBB-641. I was with a community college ensemble for a number of years and played their 641 before I invested in my own tubas. The college promptly and cheerfully sent in the 641 in for service whenever I found something amiss, but it was and is a dud of a tuba. Dreadfully flat mid-staff open D, stuffy low A-flat and G, unusable false tones, and generally uneven response up and down the horn made this professional tuba a chore to play. And then there was the sound--devoid of resonance and projection, no matter what mouthpiece I tried with it. Bringing my Holton eefer to rehearsal for the first time was such a joy and revelation--the conductor even remarked mid-rehearsal on what an improvement it was.

What frustrates me with Yamaha is they make many best-in-class entry-level instruments that are absolutely worth the price premium they command--the YCL-255 clarinet and YAS/YTS-23 saxes in particular--but, with the notable exception of the 103, a lower standard has been deemed acceptable for entry-level and intermediate tubas. We've seen with the 103 what they're capable of when they're designing something mostly from scratch instead of copying something else. The 201/321 and 641 are way overdue for replacement.

[swillafew]

I bought a brand new YBB 641 in April of 1980. When I got a chance I sold it, used a school horn until I graduated. It was less free blowing than anything else I tried, and the valves were sluggish. It was the only horn in my price range though.

[Z-Tuba Dude]

... I really don't see how they will compete effectively based on the merits of the instruments, given the increasing popularity and quality (in some cases) of instruments manufactured in China. If you can buy 90% of the horn at 1/2 (or less) the price, that seems like a losing proposition in the long term.

I guess that's OK, if 90% of a horn is enough.

My experience has been that Yamaha tubas/euphoniums are very consistent within a model designation. I believe that The Elephant's complaints are about consistency of various models, across their catalog, not between examples of a given model.

[Mira185]

I purchased a used YCB-861 from Dillon Music and played it regularly for 6 years.

I had not played in many years and upon my return to playing tuba, was convinced that I wanted a Mirafone 184. As my skills returned and I started to play in community groups, the 184 was a great deal of work just to be part of the group. Based upon a recommendation from Norm Pearson, I went looking for a YCB-861 and found the horn I purchased from Dillon's. I received the horn and asked Norm for his recommendation and he gave the horn a "thumbs up". It was a done deal.

This was a early model, #0000144, and had no engraving on the bell. The only markings on the horn were on the bar holding the paddles and had the model & serial #'s.

First thing I did was have Robb Stewart extend the 5th valve slide to flat 2/3 and I had a fine instrument.

I played this horn in several different community and college groups and always received compliments (especially when I practiced regularly). My thoughts: Not a professional level horn, but a horn that would serve a college student VERY well in any music program for 4 years. There were some of the usual intonation issues, but were very easily handled

Life changes and a need for some cash prompted me to sell the horn to a local high school student. In the last few days, I saw a YCB-861 for sale on E-Bay. I'm pretty sure this is was my horn. The seller is asking a LOT more money than I sold it for. Some seller's remorse on that one!

Jeff Rice

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

So people agree with me that
1.) Intonation on many Yamahas is bizarre.
2.) The 641 (the most recent incarnation, anyway) is a dud.
3.) Yamaha still makes some good instruments (YamaYork, anyone?).

[toobagrowl]

I *think* Renold Schilke had a lot to do with the early development of Yamaha brasses.

The Yamaha 861 CC and 641 BBb tubas were/are more-or-less "copies" of Alexander tubas.
The 641 BBb I tooted on a few years ago, was imo, decent. The intonation and response were OK -- could have been more even -- but I liked the Alex-ish sound and the low register kicked butt. The build seemed pretty good.

The 201/321 BBb models are more-or-less "copies" of the big old Besson BBb tubas.
The intonation and response are pretty good/even on these tubas. Big vanilla sound. Well-made. But I'd like to see an updated, more compact version of this tuba with front valves; it would be a great 'intermediate' or 'all-around' tuba.

The little 3/4 621 F and CC "fart blasters" don't do much for me. Too small for my tastes, even though they seem like fun tubas.

I think it would be cool if they brought back the "piggy" CC model.

I finally got to toot on a Yamaha 411 sousa earlier this year. I actually liked it quite a bit - more than the Conn 20K. Big warm sound, seemed well in-tune and responded well in all registers. Comfy. Kinda light in weight for it's 5/4-ish size. The bell is brazed into "one-piece", like on the old H.N. White King sousas. The weird part is that I could not find any makers mark on the bell at all, but only on the valve casing.