Why oh why does he soooo dig this show?

[WoodSheddin]

[ai698]

This show always scared me when my daughter watched it>

[Gorilla Tuba]

Why they like it... i dunno. But the worst thing is hearing parent singing "Fruit Salad, Yummy Yummy" when the kids aren't even around.

My 15 month old goes nuts for the Wiggles, too.

[Leland]

My niece really digs the Wiggles, and really, I'd rather have her get into them than into Barney. The guys in the show actually started the act as a project for college, and people liked it so well that they kept going with it. Finally made it out of Oz, too (as in Australia).

[pg]

Treasure the innocence. Its fleeting.

--paul;

[corbasse]

BLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! THEIR BACK!!!!!

I find the front of them much worse, with that stupid television in it

[Kevin Hendrick]

BLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! THEIR BACK!!!!!

Again? AGAIN???

[TubaRay]

Treasure the innocence. Its fleeting.

--paul;

How true!

[tubeast]

Quote: "When I was in preschool, they forced us to watch hours on end of Barney, and the Tellutubies." unquote.

WHAT??? Are you SERIOUS ?
Are you telling me that in the US, public pre-school child care facilities like kindergarten allow kids to watch TV, and even FORCE them to do so ??? And then some stupefying junk like Teletubbies where kids are taught babytalk instead of real language ???
What good would that do ? Is it to make the staff´s job easier by switching off the kids´ brains ?

I don´t have kids, but I might in the future. My siblings have kids, though, and I observed that babies are amazing in their ability to learn, and nobody is born stupid.
What´s the point in teaching a hungry mind aching for input something wrong like babytalk, artificially and purposefully limiting their abilities to express themselves ?
You wouldn´t tell a beginning tuba player to try produce a sound by sucking the air in through the horn either, would you ?

Hans, who wonders who else realizes that the most important button on a TV set is red and reads "OFF"

[Joe Baker]

In the US, the term "preschool" doesn't refer to a public school. Public school prior to first grade would be "Kindergarten" or "Pre-Kindergarten". Preschool is usually synonymous with "day care", although there are certainly some who send their children to private pre-school for only a few hours a day, giving the children some interaction and Mom or Dad a chance to rest or catch up on housework, bills, etc. These facilities range from very excellent to very poor.

In the PUBLIC school, however, kids (all the way up through High School) ARE forced to watch TV shows that are ostensibly current events, but are loaded with pop culture and advertising. The company that provides the programming (and sells the advertising for big $$$) provides video equipment in exchange for the school's promise that all students will watch the program. Compared to that, Teletubbies seems harmless to me!
________________________
Joe Baker, who advises everyone who can to find SOME way to put their kids in private schools -- or at least try to innoculate their kids against the influence of this programming by helping them to see how insidious it is.

[tubeast]

Ouch. Sorry to hear that. In 1988/89 I spent almost a year in Elkhart, IN as a foreign exchange student. Back then we didn´t have to watch anything in high-school but the teacher and his notes on the overhead. No adverts involved here.
To a 16 year old German the general school policy tended to be comparably harsh and insistent on the way students were to maturely make efficient use of the time they spent at school and not distract anybody else from learning.
Actually I enjoyed my time there, especially science and English classes.

The band program was cool, too. I enjoyed marching band, which was completely new to me.
There´s no tradition for that in Germany. We usually don´t even have a band program in school at all, at least not as a class you get grades on. If there is a school band / orchestra, it will be sort of like “speech clubâ€

[tubeast]

Jared,
I´m with you as far as children not being adults goes. I do think that it is great to make sure toddlers understand stories, explanations and educational concepts presented to them in programs they watch on TV. The texts should and can be put in simple words to get across the intended concepts. I think baby-talk spoken by toddlers who are practising to talk should be tolerated, but not encouraged. Kids don´t have to “go Beddy-byeâ€

[ThomasDodd]

And then some stupefying junk like Teletubbies where kids are taught babytalk instead of real language ???
What good would that do ?

Children are children, not miniature adults.

I'm with Hans here. Children learn language by imitation. If you speak "baby-talk" to them that's what they will imitate. If you always speak full words with proper enunciation, that's what they willl imitate. Sure, it won't happen overnight, but always set a great example, and let them meet it.

You can use soothing, clam, gentle tones with out poor language. You can tell a toddler a scary story, but with laughter in you voice and they will find it funny. You can tell a funny story with fear in your voice and they'll get scared. Either way, enunciate.

[ThomasDodd]

Treat your children like children.

So I should throw a tantrum when they don't do what I want, and cry when they don't want to play nice?

-Thomas

[Leland]

Actually, research has shown that babies learn the sounds we make from baby talk, and speaking to them like you would another adult does not help them to speak faster.

I really hope that research is wrong. There's baby talk, and then there's taking it too far and using it too long.

My sister talks to her 4-year old daughter almost like she's a grownup, sometimes resorting to simpler words, but never babbling like an infant. Wouldn't you know it, but my niece speaks really clearly.

She knows another couple that talks to their son in baby talk, and those are the only sounds that he really makes -- and he's five years old.

[Joe Baker]

Yeah, Leland, I think you're right. I've got three kids -- the youngest will be 16 next month -- and we never talked "baby talk to them" after they were a year or so old. We'd use very simple sentence syntax, and a very limited vocabulary at first, and speak in a tone of voice that was distinctly "for little ones", but always in complete sentences. They were always light years ahead of their peers in verbal skills (less so with my son, I guess, but still ahead of the pack).

I may have done plenty of things wrong as a parent, but I have no regrets about teaching them to talk like me, instead of me talking like them.
________________________________
Joe Baker, who is not so sure we are REALLY disagreeing with Bill, as simple syntax/simple vocab/kindergarten-teacher-voice sort of IS baby talk, after all....

[Leland]

I'm with Hans here. Children learn language by imitation.

People are always surprised when they find out what children are capable of learning, even simply by imitation. I have to change my vocabulary a bit when I'm around my niece.

It's taken robotic engineers a long, long time to figure out how to make a robot run -- something every two-year-old can do (and for hours, too).

You can use soothing, clam, gentle tones with out poor language. You can tell a toddler a scary story, but with laughter in you voice and they will find it funny. You can tell a funny story with fear in your voice and they'll get scared. Either way, enunciate.

We always thought it was fun to tell our dog, in a very cheerful, happy way while scratching behind his ears, "Oh you are so stupid, yes you are! Yes you are! Now say, 'I'm a dummy'!" *woof!*

But then, if you scolded him while saying the phrase "Good dog!" in quite an angry manner, he would seem to be thinking, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry... wait... did you say 'good'? I think I'm sorry, but... oh, geez, you got me confused!"

[Rick Denney]

Treat your children like children.

So I should throw a tantrum when they don't do what I want, and cry when they don't want to play nice?

-Thomas

Bill didn't say act like children in front of children, but rather don't expect them to act like adults in front of adults--yet.

Remember that shows like the Teletubbies were aimed at infants up through the first stages of toddlerhood. Those shows include lots of repitition, which children like, lots of gentle tones, which are soothing, and lots of good behavior between people, which is good for the watchers to see.

I don't have a problem with the Teletubbies, even if one of them carries a purse, heh, heh. During the last controversy surrounding that show, I watched several episodes to see what the fuss was about, and concluded that parents were letting a show for babies drive them mad, instead of being the adults.

The research Bill mentioned was actually reported this morning on a program I heard. It said that we use a sing-song inflection when we talk with babies, and this helps them learn language more effectively than when we use the more monotonic adult talk. Near as I can tell, it didn't address the issue of what words one uses at all.

Personally, I think it makes sense to make sure children can speak single syllables before going on to two syllables, and two before going to three, etc. Sorta like learning a one-octave Bb major scale before learning an A-Dorian scale in three octaves.

I've known a number of children who grew up in houses where they were parked in front of a TV that was on all the time, and they speak with a heavy regional accent completely unlike ANYTHING being shown on television. Thus, I conclude that children still learn speech mostly from the people who surround them, not from TV.

The real problem is that we don't teach them anything useful to think and say with those language skills. They spend their critical time before five years of age getting their behavior examples from hourly workers at a day-care center, instead of from their parents. And I suspect that is true in more places than the U.S. By the time they reach their teens, all they've learned is that, in the words of Bill Cosby, parents don't want justice, they want quiet. No wonder their natural adolescent self-absorption turns inward. That more than anything keeps them from growing out of their teens, it seems to me.

I know lots of people my age who are well educated and well spoken, and who still are no more responsible than they were in high school. Their kids rule them because they are unable to firmly establish standards of behavior, having never learned them themselves.

Rick "amused lately by the Supernanny show" Denney

[Doug@GT]

Trust your instincts.

My instinct is to talk normally. That's what I do.

Doug "not being argumentative, just stating a fact"

[ThomasDodd]

Bill didn't say act like children in front of children, but rather don't expect them to act like adults in front of adults--yet.

I was being facetious*.

I don't have a problem with the Teletubbies

I never had much of a problem with them either. Barney is a different story.
I'm more concerned with the cartoons and show for 5-15 year olds currenty.
Where are Bugs and Daffy when we need them.

Personally, I think it makes sense to make sure children can speak single syllables before going on to two syllables, and two before going to three, etc. Sorta like learning a one-octave Bb major scale before learning an A-Dorian scale in three octaves.

Agreeds. But at the same time, why use poor enunciation when talking to them? Use trhe hard consonats where they belong. No sense sounding like Elmer Fudd.

Total agreement on the remainder.