There is no lack of gigs.

[Tim Jackson]

OK… I consider myself a professional musician. I agree with Joe, there are plenty of tuba gigs in the world. Now let’s talk about gigs within a 2 hour radius of ANY¬¬-CITY USA. If you covered all the bases Joe listed you might have a few gigs a week at low bread. Help from Colleges... Most College professors have no clue what is happening in the real world much less able to break the news to his aspiring students. And… why would he, its bad for enrollment. Let’s see how many full time college positions are even around in 5 years. At least adjuncts have a clearer picture of the real potential of finding a college level teaching job… about the same as getting a orchestra gig! The two colleges I teach at have 3-6 full time positions and 12-18 adjunct positions.

Looking for gigs boys… you gotta be kidding. What you better come to grips with is this: we are living in a society that has a declining value on musical excellence and more importantly live performances no longer draw much attention. What I mean is 20-30 years ago just getting really good might give you half a chance at barely making a living.

POP MUSIC
At one time having the best band meant getting some premium money… now when you hear “what’s your price point” it actually means “as long as you’re as cheap as all the others regardless of quality” you might get this job.

TUBA GIGS
How many people do you think even know what a tuba is anymore!

NEW ORLEANS JAZZ
You better hurry… most people that love this music are moving to the nursing homes. Play the retirement homes… pays a fraction of what you might have made in a Dixieland band 20 years ago. I do mean hurry because most of the nursing homes already want 50s-60s music. Most nursing homes are looking for people to play for free… and finding them!

RAP
Not even if you want it. Most tracks are generated on computer. When did you ever see a rap artist with a band behind him.

OK, I give, I can’t even handle writing anymore about this sad situation. Get a fiberglass fight case and fly all over the world making pick-up gigs or get an chemical engineering degree stay close to home, have a family, time with the kids, a happy wife, and enough money to buy any tuba you ever dreamed of. Go play in church for free and find out what you should really do with your life!

I DO LOVE PLAYING THE TUBA
Tim

[Tim Jackson]

I just thought of this... memorize this along with your scales...

the musicians of today are playing for half of what they're worth so the musicians of tomorrow can earn a 1/4 of what they are worth.

That is the future
P.S. glad I bought my horns when I was young.

[tubajoe]

Thanks for the thoughtful responses!

I posted that list sort of on an early-morning whim… inspired by some colleagues on FB speaking about college curriculum.

Nothing that I mention there is too far out there. I’m just suggesting that these are all USABLE INFLUENCES as well as direct performance experience platforms to educate and inspire a well-rounded tuba player.

I’ll be honest, I also posted it in response to the ongoing amount of sour grapes here towards opportunities for the tuba.

I’m also saying, while I dearly love sitting in the back of an orchestra, that orchestral playing should be taught as a STARTING POINT for the tuba, not an ending point! I can’t emphasize that enough.

Also, nowhere did I mention renumeration. That’s an entirely different subject, especially in the USA where acknowledgement of the arts is well… anyway. There are easier ways to make a living than doing music (just about every other way) But it’s almost always been that way. Bach and Mozart struggled at making a living.
I am writing this for people who do music because they have to, not because they want to. I wish I could be one who did it for the joy. I do it, well… I’m not sure why. I just have to. It’s who I am, and yep, it's probably a fault.

We get caught up in debate about standards of living, costs of living etc etc. In my opinion, that shouldn't be part of this equation. I believe that it’s almost entirely impossible to directly translate music to money. Students need to understand that. Translating music into money is an art all its own and for every rule that’s mentioned, there are many more who are breaking or redefining those rules. Students from the get-go need to be taught that “music is an entrepreneurial pursuit”. Period. It’s not going to get you corporate-level financial security. Some become able to mimic that, but guess what, almost no musician has that security. Almost NONE. (if you don’t believe me, how many orchestras are currently folding?) Accept these facts, try to afford a beer, and move on with the process of making music.

I digress…

I’m saying knowledge creates opportunity. And then it’s up to the player how to manage these opportunities. BUT, micro-focusing multiple degree programs on teaching 50 supportive tuba parts, some of which most orchestras can’t even play, is not the best route to get gigs, create gigs, or promote and grow the reach of our great instrument.

The basic styles and repertoires and applications I listed are tools, but also are motivators… and if you look closely, you will probably find tuba players in the world who *are* doing things related to just about all of these genres.

I’m saying that if a student finds a dead end, that there are so many other doors open!

A few responses:

What exactly do you mean by "a small familiarity?" If this means just being exposed to it through the opportunity to attend live performances and access to recordings and online resources, then I think that colleges generally do an ok job. If you mean actual instruction and evaluation in each of these areas, then I don't think it's possible within the current requirements/restrictions of a 4 year degree at a public university. Even in a performance specific degree at a public university (I'm restricting my focus to that since that's what I deal with) students have a large general education requirement to fulfill. That fills up at least 6-8 hours of a student's semester schedule, and that's not including music theory, history, and aural skills. In a music education degree there's even more red tape to deal with. Once you add applied lessons and ensembles, the student has a very full schedule. Just scanning that list, I think it would have to be divided into at least 3 different degree programs it not more if you're wanting dedicated instruction in each of those areas.

Good question. I think it’s general. Tuba players should always be encouraged to fit the tuba into as many areas as possible…as an exercise! Don’t spend hundreds of hours practicing the damn Meistersinger trill. It sucks on a CC tuba and will never be that great. Spend your time on things that might actually open your mind. Small familiarity means that collegiate tuba players should have a good "musical diet".

I’m suggesting that more “modern” applications be taught, or at least given some familiarity and bias be dropped. Yes it’s true that computer music has replaced acoustic music. Yes it’s true that rap killed rock n roll, but rock n roll killed jazz, and jazz killed classical and secular classical killed sacred music…and video killed the radio star. yadda yadda. There’s a historical lineage that exists and to prepare students for the modern world, both education or performance, you can choose to evolve as guitar players, drummers, producers, singers have…

The orchestra is a beautiful, beautiful incredible place for music and is one of, if not the best applications for the tuba. Arnold Jacobs is my #1 musical influence. BUT… it’s a historical medium. …and is only one of a hundred places to play.

Compare it to visual arts: If they took our same approach, it would be like most schools only taught Western Renaissance techniques.

You see, I firmly believe that musicians need to let go of this grip of genre. Let go of that and there is so much music in the world, and so much opportunity for the tuba. One of my best teachers I ever had was Dr Ken Singleton. He told me “learn treble clef, there’s a lot more music in the world than you think there is.”

For example, I’m suggesting that if in schools, tuba players could graduate with some academic familiarity with:
Balkan Music
Banda Music
New Orleans Music
Blasmusik
etc
that they’d have more tools to succeed in the world. If those applications were put on pedestals similar to Mahler and Wagner and Vaughan Williams, there’d be a lot less kvetching about joblessness! …and tuba players would have the same job opportunities as guitar players or drummers.

Right now, I’ll wager that the most profitable style of tuba is not the 6/4 CC, it’s the sousaphone. How many college students would have the balls to walk into a lesson with a sousaphone? How many college professors would have the balls to teach on one? How many instrument makers are moving sousaphone development forward?

(disclaimer: I don’t own a 6/4 BAT or a Sousaphone, but I can mimic the sounds of both really well)

How many tuba players are taught who Arnold Jacobs was, but how many were taught as much about Joe Tarto, Bill Barber, or one of the most prolific and varied players of the 20th century, Jonathan Dorn?

I digress again… It’s late. Let me answer a few more:

POP MUSIC
At one time having the best band meant getting some premium money… now when you hear “what’s your price point” it actually means “as long as you’re as cheap as all the others regardless of quality” you might get this job.

Pop music is an untapped resource and while we are taught to poopoo it, it’s always there… and yes, professionally done at an *extremely* high level. The more I nudge into this world, the more I am totally amazed by it. It moves in a different world than just about everything else, a world that exists on computer. But... computers can't yet replicate a live tuba, especially in a live arena. In live arenas TUBAS KICK A LAPTOP'S ***.

TUBA GIGS
How many people do you think even know what a tuba is anymore!

It’s up to us to teach them.

NEW ORLEANS JAZZ
You better hurry… most people that love this music are moving to the nursing homes. Play the retirement homes… pays a fraction of what you might have made in a Dixieland band 20 years ago. I do mean hurry because most of the nursing homes already want 50s-60s music. Most nursing homes are looking for people to play for free… and finding them!

Oh man, there is an UNBELIEVABLE renaissance of both traditional and modern New Orleans brass band styles. It’s absolutely huge. If you don’t believe me Google “Trombone Shorty”.

…and also see there is a sousaphone player on a major TV show every single night. Yep, they don't let him play enough, but he's there!

RAP

gonna change that to Hip-hop

See NoLa above… Many successful professional sousaphone players have a solid familiarity with it. It’s influence in music across the world is profound and unequivocally undeniable. Also, it’s a place where experimentation and genre-crossing are openly embraced. It’s been here for 30 years and is not going away for a long, long time. It will have it’s own place in music history texts of the future. And what’s amazing about it? It came out of almost nothing. It’s a genre that’s completely unique in that regard.

“OK, I give, I can’t even handle writing anymore about this sad situation. Get a fiberglass fight case and fly all over the world making pick-up gigs or get an chemical engineering degree stay close to home, have a family, time with the kids, a happy wife, and enough money to buy any tuba you ever dreamed of. Go play in church for free and find out what you should really do with your life!”

Kudos to you for figuring that out. Sometimes I wish I had! Making a living actually making music is a confusing pain in the ***. It’s also constantly changing. Professional music has it’s own lifestyle, that’s another thing that needs to be taught. It’s not for everyone (sometimes I wonder if it’s even for me!) and we all need to choose where our life balance is. This is true in *any* field. …it’s just amplified in music.

But, no it’s not a sad situation. US Healthcare is a sad situation, the Middle East is a sad situation. The music world is a confusing situation that evolves so amazingly fast in so many random directions and it’s sad when it evolves away from us. What I’m saying is that schools should prepare students for this. Players who understand this are the ones who are going to move the tuba forward. Students should demand more tools for heading into the professional world. (and by tools, I don't mean more tubas!)

We need to look at professional performance like a tech entrepreneur would at their field. ...rather than approaching practice how an art historian would.


Thanks for reading! A lot of this is me thinking out loud, and comes from conversations with other colleagues of many different musical walks. Thanks for humoring me! I'm not sure this is totally the right place to talk about this all, but it's there and that's where my mind was!

[mceuph]

"Help from Colleges... Most College professors have no clue what is happening in the real world much less able to break the news to his aspiring students. And… why would he, its bad for enrollment.

In considering the full-time professors that I have worked and currently work with, and many tuba/euphonium professors I have met or interacted with, I find little to no evidence that this stereotype is accurate. Perhaps I have been blessed to work with exceptional colleagues. I have observed the "ivory tower" syndrome in some professors, but rarely in applied music professors. Speaking as a fellow adjunct, I see no evidence that I am more "real world" than my full time colleagues.

Let’s see how many full time college positions are even around in 5 years. The two colleges I teach at have 3-6 full time positions and 12-18 adjunct positions

If you're referring specifically to full-time dedicated applied tuba/euph jobs, then I agree completely. I agree that those wanting to pursue a traditional academic career are facing the same challenges as those looking to make a living in a traditional performing career. Colleges will need to adjust to meet the needs of modern society. One of the departments I teach in is making this transition by building and promoting their music technology program and keeping students up to date with modern industry standards. Of course this is only one way, but we as teachers will have to find ways to contribute in this new and evolving paradigm.

[Donn]

Well, sure, and as he touches on what's more profitable, the other Joe is clearly thinking along those lines too, but I think the point is, if it's about comparing incomes, then go ahead and be a plant manager or car salesman or something. I mean for heaven's sake, Tim Jackson's scenario with the happy wife? Talk about fantasy land!

[windshieldbug]

You think that there is an abundance of over-specialized over-qualified overly optimistic tubas being churned out by higher education, my wife is a flute professor/big-name-conservatory graduate/performer.

Her gigs include opera, symphony, and Baroque groups, and her teaching is full time at the University level.
She is lucky to have made a career in the "traditional" flute world. There must be 20 flutists for EVERY tuba player. There they have to do already what is being discussed NOW. They are expanding opportunities, extending technique, creating new visions and networking UNBELIEVABLY! A flute convention is just that: a convention, taking place around the chosen few lucky enough to perform. The performances are at such a high level that even I enjoy the music (with my well-known appreciation of woodwind playing... ).

The future is already here, just look to how other instruments like trumpets or flutes are dealing with it. As was mentioned, get one's head out of the sand...

[PMeuph]

http://www.theonion.com/articles/find-t ... -do,31742/" target="_blank

[toobagrowl]

To aspiring collegiate players who read these forums:

There is NO lack of tuba gigs in the world

Kinda easy for you to say that when you are in NYC --- a very large city where gigs are plentiful. You cannot use the same standard for everyone here. I agree with some of your other points, though.

[roweenie]

"Kinda easy for you to say that when you are in NYC --- a very large city where gigs are plentiful"????

I wasn't going to answer this topic , but excuse me, when was the last time you were a professional tuba player in NYC?

I made a living as a freelancer in NYC all through the 1980's, '90's, and into this century, and I have seen the freelance "music business" in this town wither down quite drastically, and every year there are more "new talents" diving into the ever shrinking swimming pool.

Tubajoe, on one point, I do agree with you - diversification is ESSENTIAL. I have a performance degree (two, actually) from MSM, but I specifically made most of my money playing "Dixieland" (BTW, I absolutely HATE that term) music, and when I started we were riding the dying wave of the whole "Your Father's Moustache" era. (BTW, the audience from that era is not in nursing homes - they are now pushing up daisies). And I do also know there is a "resurgence" of this music, but it's a fact that MANY of these gigs pay LESS than I when was playing them 30 years ago. At that time, I was able to buy a house (in NYC!) and start a family with a stay-at-home wife/mom - how many of the 20-somethings playing "Dixieland" (or anything else for that matter) can do that now? Without extensive traveling? Quality of life is just an important consideration as anything else.

Furthermore, the freelance gigs that are left have not kept up with the rate of inflation, to say the least (you will notice I specifically said "freelance", as I have no data in regard to the Met, the Phil, or the City Opera - oh damn, I forgot - they don't exist anymore....)

Forgive my rant, but this subject hits close to home for me....

Bob Sacchi

[David Richoux]

Great list!

I would add just a few things -

Fanfare/HONK/Alternative Brass Bands (performance, organization, history, etc.)
Community Band/Orchestra (performance, organization, history, etc.)
Both of these do not pay much unless you know what can be done with them!

BTW, NoLa is usually spelled NOLA (New Orleans, LOuisiana)

[bisontuba]

As long as I spend most of my days in "dixieland" rather than "yankeeland" (particularly in the winter...oh, and around tax time), I like it OK.

Call it whatever you like...Just call me for the gig...and for dinner.

That video of Southern Women is one of the funniest things I've seen--and very true!!! Thank Goodness for the NorthEast!!
Mark

[roweenie]

Bloke,

You've got me all wrong - I absolutely meant NO offense or disrespect to Southerners - it's simply that it's a common belief among us "moldy figs" that the term "traditional jazz" is much more appropriate. Calling the music "Dixieland" conjures up images of straw hats and red - and - white striped vests. (Try to imagine blowing an Adrian Rollini solo on bass sax while wearing that get-up; been there, done that).

As for being a "yankee", you won't find anyone more dedicated to personal liberty and lower taxes than I. Shall I send you a scan of my NRA card?

[tbn.al]

That video of Southern Women is one of the funniest things I've seen--and very true!!! Thank Goodness for the NorthEast!!
Mark

Ain't nothin' funny 'bout thet Mark. Thet's jus' ever day roun' heare.

[Michael Bush]

That video of Southern Women is one of the funniest things I've seen--and very true!!! Thank Goodness for the NorthEast!!
Mark

Ain't nothin' funny 'bout thet Mark. Thet's jus' ever day roun' heare.

Well, it's funny as long as it's us laughing. A New Yorker laughing at our women is fixing to get a a** whoopin'.

[tubanonymous]

I find this topic interesting as a younger player. I started off in HS doing youth orchestra and things, and expected to do more of that in college. I have to say, in my time in college, Ive barely practiced any orchestra or solo music. Instead, the classical music Ive done is for unconventional chamber groups. Most of my time is occupied with rock/"gypsy" (as we call balkan in LA)/and other music that isnt classical.

I have to say, not only are there *many* chances to play in these worlds, but people are excited about the tuba. A lot of stereotypes we take for granted dont exist. Indie musicians think weird instruments are awesome. One time Mike G from Odd Future rapped with my gypsy group at a record release.

Basically, the tuba is an amazing instrument, capable of more than any of us give it credit for I think! And we should be careful to presume things about musical worlds we dont operate in. EVERYone is looking for new creative input

[The Big Ben]

What would it cost to hire a faculty who together could deliver that curriculum?

I think Joe just found himself a teaching position at some state university ...

No doubt he has the 'stuff' but I have a hard time imagining him working for a 'gubberment Kollege".

[sloan]

Most teachers' best students are better than their teachers...

At what?