Is F tuba really a necessity for Grad school?

[Tubajones]

I'm pretty that I'll get a lot flame for this but here it goes. I'm just curious if there are grad programs (usually well acknowledgeable) who accept students/offer an assistantship to those who don't own/ can't afford an f tuba and only own a C tuba. I know that playing an f tuba is a skill that is required for tuba performance majors however I'm coming from an undergrad program that only owns Bb horns for students to use (I'm the only one who owns there own instrument) and I have very limited experience on F tuba. I have looked into loan possibilities but to no avail since I go to a private institution that charges a but load for tuition. What I'm basically wondering is if there is a scenario where a larger/successful music program admit and offer an assistantship to a student who can play very proficiently and over look that they didn't/don't have access to an f tuba. I will get an F eventually but as it seems right now I may not be able to afford one come audition time. It would be great to hear from those who actually know how it is for grad school perhaps those who were in a similar boat as myself or even some of the professors on this board.
Thanks
TJ

[Ferguson]

Owning an F tuba is not necessary to enter grad school. Either you're proficient at making music on the tuba or not. The audition will show. If you're a badazz on CC tuba or whatever, they will hear it and welcome you. The tuba does not make the player.

Owning an F tuba at a young(ish) age is not universal. Some of my teachers didn't own or play an F tuba until after college. And those guys are pretty good.

SF
/some of the above was intended to be a factual statement

[eupher61]

There are plenty of schools that won't require F or Eb or anything but "tuba". It will take time and effort to find the one for you, but that's part of the process.

[swillafew]

My teachers were Ross Tolbert, Paul Maybery, Abe Torchinsky and Ivan Hammond. They did not require particular gear, and did not teach in a way that might foster an attitude of the kind. Mr. Ferguson said it all in his post. When I studied with Mr. Hammond I sold my own (only) horn because the school had a nice F tuba that nobody else even looked at, and I had it to myself.

[JCalkin]

Short answer: "Yes, but..."

I went into my Master's degree (tuba performance) with only a CC tuba in my arsenal. I was *strongly* encouraged to buy a bass tuba while I was there and I did get an F tuba during my first year of graduate school.

So it is possible to apply, audition, and be admitted with only a contrabass tuba.

However...

A teaching assistantship might be another matter. If you intend to be "The Tuba TA" then you will likely need to have some F tuba chops. If you are in a school large enough that you would be expected to teach undergrad lessons then it stands to reason that some of those students will own and play F tuba, and knowing how to steer an F tuba around would be a necessary skill to teach those kids.

It all really comes down to the expectations of the teacher at each institution. I recommend making contact with anyone with whom you might be interested in studying.

If you will accept an assistantship in another related field (music theory, band, orchestra, etc) then it probably would not be an issue. When I went for my Master's I was the band TA.

Hope this helps.

[bort]

Start here:

What is your CC tuba? If it's something mid-sized, you can probably get away with it for a while. If it's something huge, probably not.

What's the difference between undergraduate and graduate tuba playing anyway? More black notes on the page? More ledger lines? No... it's about proficiency, automaticity, and mastering the artistic expression (plus learning all of the music stuff). I don't see how F tuba really changes that much, at least not while you save up your money.

Also, what's the end goal? Teaching or orchestral auditioning?

[gregsundt]

Even at the time, it was unusual. I was a M. Mus. student, and the TA, for my grad work at Ohio State. I walked onto campus with a 4/4 Rudy and a B&S Symphonie F. Bob LeBlanc prevailed on me to sell the F in order to be able to finalize the purchase of the Rudy. Not a bad tradeoff, just one I wish to this day I hadn't made. Still, he was one of those guys who regularly proved that one good horn is all you need for most gigs.

As I said, it was an unusual position for a tuba performer/prof, even 25-30 years ago. Today, the expectation is likely that you will obtain and become proficient on an Eb or F before you pull a M. Mus. from any "name" school. You may or may not be expected to own one up front. After all, players of other instruments generally need to learn the "family". Why should we be the exception, just because ours weigh (and cost) 5-10 times as much?

[sweaty]

If you're in school to learn to play the tuba well, compare the cost of a good bass tuba to the cost (including opportunity costs) of all those years in school. Just shop around and get the equipment you want/need.

[k001k47]

If you never try, you'll never know.

[J.c. Sherman]

The short answer is no... but...

Read Doug Yeo's website in depth. He makes great points about priorities, and very, VERY short is the list of humans unable to purchase a very much needed piece of equipment.

If you're serious about being a tuba performer, you need an instrument on which you are proficient performing, bass and contrabass. If you're an ed major, such things can be excused (though, will your students ever easily perform to a high level if you never did?). But you must invest in your major. Your violin colleagues will have no sympathy, nor should they.

All that said, if you can play the $#!+ out of the one instrument you do own, you can probably pass muster. And your teacher will share with you the above... get the tools for the job (imagine a a flautist without a piccolo, or a trumpet player without C, Eb and Pic)!

J.c.S.

[MartyNeilan]

When I went back to college in my 30's with 1 then 2 kids I was able to purchase or upgrade instruments as necessary throughout those 3.5 years. They were not new, and they may have had "quirks" but they were "professional quality". I also rode my bicycle most places and the only eating out that happened was when the local pizza place had a 1 topping pizza for $5 takeout on Tuesday night. My then wife and I lived very frugally in student housing, but we had everything we needed.
I was frustrated seeing other students who drove new cars and went out for $7 lunches every day but complained they didn't have the money for a metronome or tuner week after week.
As my former executive director used to say, "priorities"

[MartyNeilan]

When I went back to college in my 30's with 1 then 2 kids I was able to purchase or upgrade instruments as necessary throughout those 3.5 years. They were not new, and they may have had "quirks" but they were "professional quality". I also rode my bicycle most places and the only eating out that happened was when the local pizza place had a 1 topping pizza for $5 takeout on Tuesday night. My then wife and I lived very frugally in student housing, but we had everything we needed **
I was frustrated seeing other students who drove new cars and went out for $7 lunches every day but complained they didn't have the money for a metronome or tuner week after week.
As my former executive director used to say, "priorities"

** her patience quickly ran out when the "40 thousand dollar a year band director job" that the professors endlessly talked about never materialized after graduation.

[J.c. Sherman]

When I went back to college in my 30's with 1 then 2 kids I was able to purchase or upgrade instruments as necessary throughout those 3.5 years. They were not new, and they may have had "quirks" but they were "professional quality". I also rode my bicycle most places and the only eating out that happened was when the local pizza place had a 1 topping pizza for $5 takeout on Tuesday night. My then wife and I lived very frugally in student housing, but we had everything we needed.
I was frustrated seeing other students who drove new cars and went out for $7 lunches every day but complained they didn't have the money for a metronome or tuner week after week.
As my former executive director used to say, "priorities"

Yes.

[tusabtuba]

At one time, we were a one-tuba world; i.e. Herb Wekselblatt, Joe Novotny, Harvery Phillips, Arnold Jacobs, to name a few. Yes Joe and Arnold had an F tuba, but it hardly saw the light of day. Only when you got a job did an F tuba enter the picture. If you can play well on your CC or BB-flat, having an extra tuba doesn't matter. I think schools who emphasize the F will have at least one for the students to pass around. Long ago, you normally took one tuba -- probably the only one you owned -- to an audition and lived or died by what came out of the bell.

Tusabtuba

[Untersatz]

Just out of curiosity, what year are you in college and have you taken any writing or English courses in the past year?

Ya, do as Ian Sez, NOT as he duz

Try a gold played Monette mouthpiece

[smitwill1]

I went to UNM in the late '80s and played in the New Mexico Brass Quintet. Auditioned and was accepted playing a Miraphone 185 CC. But, when I showed up they immediately wanted me on an F. Nice F--a B&S Symphonic model. We had some early fall concerts with some challenging literature, so I really didn't want to make the switch so abruptly, so I agreed to make the switch (but didn't say when I'd do it...). After the first few rehearsals and concert I was congratulated by my colleagues (including my major prof) on my sound, intonation, and balance on the F...only, it wasn't the F that I played, but my 185 using a PT-9 (new PT-64) to brighten up my sound a bit.

Long story short--they weren't happy about being "duped*", but did acknowledge that it is the sound not the horn that matters. I eventually took to the F and use one regularly in quintet, my local community symphony, and for teaching. Schools may be more demanding now that more undergraduates have experience on F, but I'll "+1" the previous suggestions: 1) focus on growing your skills on your existing equipment, 2) if asked, be open about your willingness to acquire and learn either F or Eb, and 3) be disciplined about saving up for a bass tuba.

*For the record, the striking difference in the 5th valve loop alone is a dead give-away. I suggest that either they recognized that I was stressed about the gig, gave me some slack, and were trying to see if I'd "fess up", or they were concentrating on their own parts and had no time (or reason) to look at the horn that I was using.

[Untersatz]

Anyone (other than the tuba players themselves) who is trying to tell a tuba player (particularly who they admit is doing a outstanding job) about "what type of instrument they should be using" is being anal...

Right on Joe!!! We know what equipment we need!!!

giant_tuba.jpg

[tbn.al]

How unfortunate it is that in the top 100 jobs that bloke referenced there are NO jobs that even hint at music or the arts. Well grant manager might sneak in the back door. A telling commentary on our society, yes? It is what it is. Find a way to eat and find a way to make music. It would be wonderful if a job could do both, but most of the time it can't, no matter which tubas you own. Base your decision on what you think your tuba need is, not what someone tells you it is.

[Slamson]

Oy! Bloke has brought it straight out!

Where I got my master's, people going for their DMA's were referred to as "Didn't Make the Audition" because anybody with great chops and a lot of work could get a gig (playing or college teaching) just by being, well, good. Then all of a sudden universities started to get anal about it and wouldn't hire anybody unless they had a "DMA" after their name (or as in my case and lots of others, a "Ph.D") So every year there are dozens of DMAs going out there looking for a handful of jobs.

Back to the F question:
Play the snot out of your BB-flat or CC and any school will welcome you with open arms. If you're that good, they'll make it worth your while to get an F, or they'll get one for you.