What's the difference between a Conn 20k and a 14k

[sactubaguy59]

I have read the past forum discussions on this web page. I understand they have the same bore. The 14k is the student model. So my question is what is the difference? Is the bell smaller? Is the rest of the tubing smaller? Does it weigh less? If less how much? Thanks for you time and responses.

[Dan Schultz]

The 20K has short-action valves. The bore is the same but everything AFTER the valve section is a bit bigger. The bells won't interchange. The 20K shares it's valve section with the 22K. The 22K has a fiberglass body.

[toobagrowl]

I understand they have the same bore. So my question is what is the difference? Is the bell smaller? Is the rest of the tubing smaller? Does it weigh less? If less how much? Thanks for you time and responses.

The 20K and 14K (Elkhart model) have the same valveset bore, but the 20K has a 'fatter' bugle -- the bell throat and outer branches are wider/fatter in diameter than the 14K. Because of that extra metal in the branches, the 20K is easily a few pounds heavier. Many ppl consider the 14K to be a "large 4/4" sousa; and the 20K a "large 5/4" sousa.

The 14k is the student model.

No. The 14K is simply a smaller-bodied sousaphone than the 20K. There is really no such thing as "student" or "professional" when it comes to sousaphones.

[imperialbari]

From the index of my Yahoo-based brass instruments’ gallery (which you have to enter via the link in my signature):

Conn background brasses (baritones, tubas, sousaphones). Pages from a circa 1968 catalogue:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Yor ... 1888109978

There you will see the specs of the 22K, 36K, 20K, 14K, and 10K sousaphones.

Klaus

Edit/PS: If you have difficulties accessing the gallery, you may send me an email address via the mail button to the right of here. I will then send you an invitation.

[iiipopes]

The Conn Loyalist also sets forth the differences in the sousaphones.
http://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/" target="_blank

[Dave Detwiler]

Conn Sousaphones - 1960s catalog.jpg

[Dan Schultz]

It might be interesting to know that there is no more production of the REAL Conn sousaphones that are being discussed here EXCEPT for the current 20K. All others coming out of Eastlake are actually rebadged Kings.

[toobagrowl]

My middle school had an old Continental Colonial sousa (Pan-American/Conn 14K stencil) and an old Conn 20K sousa.
I remember the Continental Colonial sousa being very lightweight with thin, soft metal, much like a Cerveny. It played/sounded great though.
Both sousaphones were already decades-old at the time, and that was 20 years ago....

Most ppl think of the original (Elkhart) Conn 14K to be a "standard" sousaphone, much like how the King 2350 is considered a "standard" model sousaphone. There is much more variation between tubas than with sousaphones.

It might be interesting to know that there is no more production of the REAL Conn sousaphones that are being discussed here EXCEPT for the current 20K. All others coming out of Eastlake are actually rebadged Kings.

+1

[jb2ba]

Guys... The difference is clearly 6k.

[WC8KCY]

Guys... The difference is clearly 6k.

Hear, hear.

[oscarcahue]

Hey guys,

Is there a difference in Necks between the Conn 14k, 20k, & 38k?
I had assumed their Neck Style had not changed throughout their years but I see different ones online for 14k vs 20k?

I know King had an old style neck (1250) & a new style which matched Conn for the "King 2350". Right?

[oscarcahue]

Hey guys,

Is there a difference in Necks between the Conn 14k, 20k, & 38k?
I had assumed their Neck Style had not changed throughout their years but I see different ones online for 14k vs 20k?

I know King had an old style neck (1250) & a new style which matched Conn for the "King 2350". Right?

To clarify I'm looking at MouthpieceExpress.com

I have a feeling that when they refer to the Conn 14k in their items, they're referring to the Post-UMI 14k that was actually a King, not a Conn.
Hence my confusion.

*Edit: My question was answered by MouthpieceExpress. Their listed 14k parts are actually for modern "14Ks" aka Kings. As I assumed.*

[iiipopes]

Guys... The difference is clearly 6k.

Have you noticed that there is a rough correlation of about six pounds difference (14K @ 21 lbs; 20K @ 27 lbs)?

[toobagrowl]

Model 14K was also sold as "Pan American" as well as "stencils" (music store brands). The braces on the 14K are light and - well - cheap.

Arguably, it was a "student" model.

The identically-sized "professional" model (heavy bracing, m.o.p. inlaid in bottom caps, etc...) was the model 32K.

Seems to me all sousaphones were more or less geared for the school market, anyway.

The 32k was the older, fancier version of the 14k. Just like the H.N. White King 1250 was the older, fancier version of the current King 2350.

IMO, 20k = deluxe/'high end' model, 14k = standand model, fiberglass 36k = budget/ecomony model.

I notice I don't capitalize "k" anymore when talking sousas like I did. Just easier that way.....I'm lazy

@oscarcahue -- If you need any parts for your Elkhart Conn sousas, the current 20k parts are the only new 'Conn' parts from some supplies/parts music stores (like the ones you've mentioned) that may work. TubaTinker may have some old parts, too.

[Lee Stofer]

The Conn 38K sousaphone was re-fitted with short-action valves during the Great Depression and became the model 20K Artist sousaphone. Not as large as the few Conn Jumbo sousas, but plenty large for normal human beings, and really put out a lot of sound. The Great Depression basically helped kill off the professional concert bands, and school bands became the focus of manufacturers, to help keep them in business. The Elkhart-production 14K Director sousaphone was quite popular, lightweight, and also put out a respectable amount of sound, just not quite as much as the 20K/38K. During the Elkhart years, in addition to the 14K Director model, you could get the same instrument with the fancy ferrules and braces, and this was the Conn 10K Artist sousaphone. I have also owned and played on a Conn 32K sousaphone from about 1941, that seemed to possibly be even a little smaller in body than the 10K/14K, but I never did a side-by-side comparison. I took this little silver beauty to the 2008 ITEC in Cincinnati, showed it at my booth, and a fellow named Johann Schlipfinger fell in love with it, and had to have it. He traded me some cash and the remaining mutes from his display at the end of the show, and took the horn home. Schlipf has a real dandy of an Elkhart Conn 32K sousa, with beautiful silver plating, and I ended up becoming a mute dealer. . . .

[iiipopes]

Model 14K was also sold as "Pan American" as well as "stencils" (music store brands). The braces on the 14K are light and - well - cheap.
Arguably, it was a "student" model.
The identically-sized "professional" model (heavy bracing, m.o.p. inlaid in bottom caps, etc...) was the model 32K.

Same horn, as another take on "student model" was the Conn Cavalier, from @ 1936-1938.

[Kirley]

During the Elkhart years, in addition to the 14K Director model, you could get the same instrument with the fancy ferrules and braces, and this was the Conn 10K Artist sousaphone. I have also owned and played on a Conn 32K sousaphone from about 1941, that seemed to possibly be even a little smaller in body than the 10K/14K, but I never did a side-by-side comparison.

Lee, is it possible you have those 2 models (10K and 32K) reversed?

It is my understanding that the 32K is the same size as the 14K but fancier. Also, I think production of that horn didn't last all that long.

And I thought the 10K was more of a "Junior" size, smaller branches and bell collar.

Here is one listed on eBay right now:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Conn-10K-Sousa ... 3989932464" target="_blank

I could most certainly be wrong. It happens. At least daily.

[oscarcahue]

During the Elkhart years, in addition to the 14K Director model, you could get the same instrument with the fancy ferrules and braces, and this was the Conn 10K Artist sousaphone. I have also owned and played on a Conn 32K sousaphone from about 1941, that seemed to possibly be even a little smaller in body than the 10K/14K, but I never did a side-by-side comparison.

Lee, is it possible you have those 2 models (10K and 32K) reversed?

It is my understanding that the 32K is the same size as the 14K but fancier. Also, I think production of that horn didn't last all that long.

And I thought the 10K was more of a "Junior" size, smaller branches and bell collar.

Here is one listed on eBay right now:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Conn-10K-Sousa ... 3989932464" target="_blank" target="_blank

I could most certainly be wrong. It happens. At least daily.

Wow! First time I see a 10k for sale! It does look just like the 32K.
I can't tell if it is smaller. If it is, that's a great price and rarity.

If anyone has links to details on the Conn 10K, please share!

[tubaben]

The Conn 10K listing on Ebay is mine. I could very well be wrong on the model number, and I would appreciate it if anyone can correct me on it.

I based my identification of off the recognition guide on the Conn Loyalist website here:

https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/ConnSousaModels.html" target="_blank" target="_blank


Between the year of manufacture and the 26 inch bell size, it certainly seems like it should be 10k, but now I am wondering if I'm wrong.

Anyone have any other clues I can look for and correct my listing?