belly breathing

[bilmac]

I'm doing a lot of playing at the minute and following the Jacobs approach to breathing as expounded by the Great Man himself and also our friend Steenstrup who follws the same path as far as I can see ,so imagine my confusion when I watched freedivers on TV this weekend past preparing to dive when they filled themselves up with air by "belly breathing" which I think is no more than what we all used to know as Diaphragmatic Breathing. Remember these people are holding their breath for 4 minutes plus with some divers holding for over 10 minutes.
I know their game is conservation of air rather than its controlled inhalation/ exhalation as we do but why do they use a discredited breathing method with so much success when we are encouraged to breathe so differently.Our common objective is that we want as much air as possible,(in our case within reason),isn't it? Don't forget their lives depend on getting it right,our's don't , just our reputations. So why would they not use the most efficient method possible?
So what's the answer? They can't both be correct,can they?

[gregsundt]

I think the breathing question is simpler than most of us make it. Since the diaphragm is an involuntary muscle, let's just change terminology. Deep, efficient breathing involves expansion of the abdomen, chest and back. Full expansion, without strain, is key. Breathing for underwater endurance is a very different matter, and when I have tried it, was much more strenuous. The strain involved would hardly be conducive to music-making, though it might be useful for expanding vital capacity.

[iiipopes]

Different breathing techniques for different purposes. Tuba playing usually does not have to counter the pressure of the water on the abdomen in addition to providing a proper flow of air across the embouchure into the mouthpiece. If a player is not a diver, then imagine having to take a deep breath and play while being strapped from under the armpits to the hip bones in multiple layers of stretched elastic bandages and breathing against their tension (Or a tight cummerbund, for that matter!)

[Doug Elliott]

The diaphragm is only involuntary when it's not voluntary. You can most certainly control it when you want to.

[bighonkintuba]

Skeletal (striated; voluntary) muscle under (along with external intercostal muscles) medullary respiratory center control during involuntary breathing.

[tubeast]

As some already have observed, free divers and tubists breathe for totally different reasons. From what I´ve read (no first hand observation here):
Their objective is to store as much oxigen in the blood / body tissue as possible. Another aim of their training is to tolerate higher levels of carbondioxide and withstand the urge to breathe. I understand the amount of air inhaled in their last breath before the dive is less important than the way they go about their breathing the hour before.

Be that as it may, I believe it´s a good idea to busy oneself with playing- and breathing techniques that go beyond the immediate needs of the next concert. Just to make sure one operates from a position of superiority.

[Donn]

They can't both be correct,can they?

Yes, inasmuch as air enters their lungs either way. Yeah, if these guys are divers, that's probably different, but it's easy to find instructional approaches for wind players that take different angles, and everyone ends up breathing, so all correct. What they say matters less than what you actually do. I'm obviously not an instructor, but the Claude Gordon angle looks to me like one that would be hard to screw up.