How low do you practice?

[Peach]

So, how low do you go in your practice and, how low do you consider relevant/important in your playing?
In Orchestra I don't think I've come across lower than a pedal C but I'm sure modern works demand more?

I know some solo works ask for extraordinarily low pitches.

I asked a somewhat similar question to British Brass Bandfolk about modern Bb Bass writing and the (concert pitch) F below that 'orchestral' pedal C is not uncommon.

Just wondering!

[michael_glenn]

I try to do all my scales three octaves, so I go down to G below pedal C.

[Dubby]

Maybe a stupid question, but is pedal C considered to be the C two octaves below the bass clef? C2 right? In that case, I usually go down to the F below that to warm up and keep things loose.

[Dubby]

"Pedal C" would be radically different, depending on the key of the horn.

DG

Of course. My bad. Assuming a BBb tuba, would that pedal C be correct?

[Ferguson]

This low.

[Peach]

By pedal C I meant C below 'standard' range so yes, two octaves below BC. To presume anything else seems overly pedantic to me, even though I know what folk mean...

Practicing lower than one is required to play in performance is the same as with the high register - it offers performance security.

I suppose what I'm really wondering is whether there is much point concerning oneself over being able to play down to, say, C three octaves below BC; is there any real benefit to general playing?

I practice down to G and have never had a strong Gb but frankly I'm not too worried about that. Maybe other chaps do worry about it, I don't know.

[Donn]

By pedal C I meant C below 'standard' range so yes, two octaves below BC. To presume anything else seems overly pedantic to me, even though I know what folk mean.

Well, now I'm totally confused!

• standard range depends on your standards, which obviously vary or the question wouldn't come up
• the first C below the bass clef is ½ octave, the second is 1½ below ... so are we rounding up, or down?
• "overly pedantic" could be taken to imply "correct"?

I'd say "pedal", in the context of a brass instrument, is its lowest natural note, given a valve/slide combination. Above which the next natural note (not counting "false tones") is one octave higher. The highest pedal on a BBb instrument is the BBb 1½ octaves below the clef. Pedal CC for that instrument is 2½ octaves below the clef. I think that's what Brian's talking about when he says the one that matters is your tuba's open tone, BBb in this case -- practice down there is supposed to be good for you in various ways, but there might be diminishing returns in going all the way down through the pedal range to CC.

Now if you want pedantic - we should mention that the highest pedal tone is a note higher for what we usually call a CC tuba, but [pedantry] as octave notation goes upward from C, this is actually C, not CC, so to call it a "CC" tuba is the same error as calling the Eb tuba "EEb". [/pedantry]

As for me -- what, me, practice?

[Dubby]

What I call "pedal C" would be the C two octaves below the C in the second space of the bass clef aka C1. On a BBb tuba, lowest "pedal" tone would then be Bb0. Is this common? Or am I about an octave too high?

[Donn]

What I call "pedal C" would be the C two octaves below the C in the second space of the bass clef aka C1. On a BBb tuba, lowest "pedal" tone would then be Bb0. Is this common? Or am I about an octave too high?

I'd say you're an octave too high with the C, and sure, that's common - every conceivable meaning is in common use. As for Bb0 on the BBb tuba -- one step below C1 -- yes, that's what I'd call a pedal, but it's the highest pedal tone.

For a Bb brass instrument, an open (no valves/closed slide) Bb will be the highest note in any "partial". The first partial is the pedal range - C0-Bb0, the second the normal low range an octave higher C1-Bb1, the third a fifth higher C2-F2, etc. All the other notes descend from there, as the horn is made longer by the use of slide or valves. ([pedantry] Note that while these registers are clearly related to partials in some way, so it's convenient to use the term ... for reasons no one can explain, any note issuing from the tuba will apparently have a normal full set of partials that don't necessarily correspond in any obvious way to the effective length of the horn. [/pedantry])

[Tubainsauga]

Practicing pedal tones is fundamental!

(As low as I can go, usually down to the F two octaves below the staff though I continue to try and stretch that range. It really is good for you.)

[PaulTkachenko]

It seems to be G below the pedal for me on all tubas, if I'm warmed up I aspire get a bit more volume out of a pedal F on a BBb.

I'm taking pedal G to be 7 ledger lines down in bass clef.

[Erik_Sweden]

Hi all,

Tuba newbie here (euphonium main). I can play pedal C (on my BBb) if I push out my chin and make bottom lip really soft and play on all red lip, with horn angled out from my body.
Question is: is this the correct (proper) way to do it ?

Reason I ask is because I like to learn, and no, there are no tuba teachers in this area of Sweden

[KevinMadden]

I find working to the fifth below the 'pedal' up to the fifth above the 'high tonic' of your horn to be good for covering for most of what you're going to be asked to play. So on trombone I like to make sure my daily routine goes from 'pedal' F (4 lines below) to 'high' F (6 lines above), CC tuba would go to G (3 1/2 lines below, 8vb) -> G (3 lines above) and Eb tuba to go Bb (6 lines below) -> Bb (top of staff, 8va) in similar fashion. On the tubas at least, the goal is to extend to the even higher tonic, mainly for Bydlo considerations.

[MacedoniaTuba]

As my daily routine,I am trying to achieve this range:
http://youtu.be/gkjKrOP515s" target="_blank
Even though I get the low G , still my limit for the high register(so far) is Eb.
I know I don't sound like Mr. Chris,but trying to make the best sound I can.
Now,does it helps for my range? Sure works for me.
Can I play the low notes like Mr. Chris or Mr. Gene Pokorny in the Orchestral excerpts CD( especially the Romeo and Juliet - Prokofiev solo and The Fountains of Roma )?
I believe everybody knows the answer (for those ones who don't know it, of course I can't
Cheers!

[Alex C]

Wow, everyone is talking about pedal tones for extending range and nobody is talking about how high they can play. Things have changed.

The upper range requirement is being extended all the time in solo literature but anyone with professional orchestral aspirations should work to have F above the staff available in performance anytime. Bb above that shows up more than you want but should be attained.

If you are hoping to develop a solo career, that high Bb is often called for. Frequently higher.

But.... the "money register" is where you are going to spend most of your time. Not pedals, not above the staff. That register must be reliable and flexible before you can hope to play the literature in public.

[Donn]

Wow, everyone is talking about pedal tones for extending range and nobody is talking about how high they can play. Things have changed.

My recollection is that on the contrary, there's a history here of promoting pedal practice as an essential practice technique for your playing in general, even high range (yes, I'm not making that up.) What goodgig's talking about above, about 8 posts from the top. I haven't heard that so much recently, but maybe just because everyone insists on their own definition of pedal tone so confusion is guaranteed.

[imperialbari]

Down to concert D below the open pedal on BBb.

Down to the double pedals on F & Eb.

Helps open up my lungs.

[Phil Dawson]

If you use the Brass Gym by Pat Sheridan and Sam Pilafian (and if you don't it is well worth checking out) they have you going down to the D flat right above double pedal C (an octave below the D flat 5 ledger lines below the staff quite frequently. I think that this is done to improve the register just above that as I have found that after working down there in the bottom I have a very solid pedal F and G. I also start every day playing major scales 1 octave starting on second line below the staff, going up 1 octave chromatically to 2nd line C and the back down playing all scales 1 octave down to that pedal D flat and then back up the the second line below the staff C. I have always been told that the way to a good high register is through low register work. Phil

[PaulMaybery]

Every day I try to run the gamut to as low as I can get, and the challenge to go beyond the piano's low A. Firm corners and jaw adjustment, accurate buzz, a full supply of wind and it works pretty much every time. Also I did notice that face hair (mustache), particularly over the upper lip (for me at least) is a serious detriment. After shaving it back, there was almost an additional octave down there that spoke so easily. I like to "hammer" in that range on scales and arpeggii. I find it important to approach the very low register from above either by descending arpeggio or scales and being careful to maintain and embouchure that can make the transition without having to reset. After I get things working, then I find it important to start smoothing things out and trying to play with an "unhammered" sound and try for more extended passages, including those complicated fingerings. Following all that, a visit to a couple of the Snedecor low register studies completes the low register part of practice.

To further things, I like to spend a few minutes on "altissimo" exercises. That being trying to run scales above middle c. For them I have found that if I can start the air blowing first and then form the embouchure, I can go to double high c without much pressure. When keeping the throat open and using next to no pressure on the rim, a nice high pitch buzz (not too unlike a "whistle") begins to naturally vibrate. Once that is "whistling" clearly - it is time to open it up by "feeding" it more wind and developing it into a "real" tone. I would be kidding if I told you that I can get that double c "on command." It is an exercise and makes the notes below it quite a bit more secure. G above middle c is not that uncommon anymore. John Williams Concerto, Arutiunian, to mention a few.

After, exercising in both those registers, I find that my tone has much more color to it and response is unbelievably quick. I believe this is due particularly to the "altissimo" playing which gets the lip vibrating at those higher pitches and which seem to be sympathetically energized when playing in the normal registers.

It is also important when doing any of these exercises that proper posture, deep natural breathing and firm embouchure formation are emphasized.
I think of all that as "playing smart."

I also like to do these on my largest horn - a CC. Then the F and euphonium - this makes for a nice foundation.

Of course there are many other things to warm up with and keep in one's bag of tricks. Rapid tonguing, flexibility, extending phrasing, interval studies, and certainly some "mouthpiece solfege" to help link the ear to the buzz.

Ah, so much to do and so little time.

[Alex C]

Wow, everyone is talking about pedal tones for extending range and nobody is talking about how high they can play. Things have changed.

My recollection is that on the contrary, there's a history here of promoting pedal practice as an essential practice technique for your playing in general, even high range (yes, I'm not making that up.) What goodgig's talking about above, about 8 posts from the top. I haven't heard that so much recently, but maybe just because everyone insists on their own definition of pedal tone so confusion is guaranteed.

Donn, Your recollection reaches to the beginning of Tubenet. My recollection reaches quite a bit further back so maybe you weren't around to recollect what my generation recollects.