Mouthpiece price increases?????

Bandmaster · Post by **Bandmaster** » Fri Jan 09, 2015 6:01 pm

I have been scratching my head for the last year or so trying to figure out why there has been such steep rise in the price of tuba mouthpiece, both new and used. It almost seems like prices have doubled over the last five years. The prices I see listed on eBay have become almost ridiculous. New Bach 24 mouthpieces used to sell for around $35 and now they sell $90. Miraphone mouthpieces that used to sell for $50-60 now go for $150. Even guys selling beat to crap used mouthpieces are asking, for what used to be new, prices. Is there a rational explanation? Have production costs really gone up that much? Is there that much of an increase in demand and shortage of supply to drive up prices that much?

The one saving grace is that the lexan Kelley mouthpiece prices have not seen the same inflation rate.

Doug Elliott · Post by **Doug Elliott** » Fri Jan 09, 2015 7:46 pm

Materials, plating, and tooling prices have all gone up dramatically. And postage.

As for myself, I had held prices the same for the past 8 or 9 years, through a lot of cost increases. I could easily have justified a larger increase this year, but I try to keep them reasonable - I'm a player too and I understand - gigs don't pay any more, in fact most of them pay less.

PMeuph · Post by **PMeuph** » Fri Jan 09, 2015 11:43 pm

Here are my thoughts:

The prices of raw materials (as discussed above) has risen and the price has gone up. The used mouthpieces are also affected by this. But, the market for used mouthpieces is also affected by the costs of of postage and the costs of sending/receiving money.

ex. I have about 7 mouthpieces here that I don't use regularly, don't really have a horn for and haven't touched in almost 2 years. (A PT-48, a Blessing 18, Yamaha Jim Self, Miraphone Rose, Helleberg, and 2 unnamed ones) I could probably sell them, but at this point, if I want to get what I paid for them, I have to consider that shipping to CAN is $16 or shipping to the US is about $8-9. On top of that paypal takes it share (unless people send money as gift, and then charges 2% to convert USD to CAD)
More importantly, I just don't see it worth the hassle right now to sell these mouthpieces, I might get another horn and having 9 mouthpieces(I have 2 DWs that I use regularly) isn't that much of a drain on my finances.

So, I think it's not only the increase in cost of mouthpieces, but also the lack of supply. I don't check ebay.com regularly bu I check the .ca version all the time. I've noticed that there aren't really ever any "auction" mouthpieces. Most mouthpieces are already at the price that the seller wants. No more mouthpieces starting at $0.99.(Ebay has pretty much killed that $0.99 sale with it's fees anyways)So, you just can't get a decent mouthpiece shipped to CAN for under $50 anymore. I think people don't feel it's worth their time to sell a mouthpiece they paid $100 for to sell if for $80(shipped) and end up with $60...

Who knows, I also feel that the whole market for used horns has leveled off, there are *fewer horns than there were several years ago.

*Good horns, that is.

Oh yeah, and with ebay's listing fee gone, there's no incentive to list something at a lower price. (I know it isn't gone, but I get 50 free listings or something like that)

Bandmaster · Post by **Bandmaster** » Sat Jan 10, 2015 12:42 am

One of things that I have noticed is that custom made stainless steel mouthpieces have not really gone up in price that radically. Their increase seems to more inline with inflation. Where I have noticed the real craziness is with the prices of the every day stock mouthpieces like the Bach's, Schilke's, Blessing's, Conn's and other run of the mill stuff. The mouthpieces that schools and students need to buy. If I were a school band director today every mouthpiece in my classroom would be made out of lexan. $25 a pop and they bounce if the student drops them. Plus they won't kill the horn if they get loose inside the case.

swillafew · Post by **swillafew** » Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:13 am

100 2008 dollars are 109.68 2014 dollars on the calculator. The cost of some things is up, but beer is relatively cheap, and a tuba player only needs one mouthpiece but beer is a fixed cost.

dopey · Post by **dopey** » Sat Jan 10, 2015 9:02 am

FWIW, In 2006 I paid $190(179.95+$10 shipping) For a GW Alan Baer MMVI SS C Euro Shank. Same one today is $235(Shipping incl) .

Not complaining, I had just stumbled upon my original email invoice when ordering an MMVI F mouthpiece last week.

If anything it's made me appreciate the value/condition my current GW mp is still in. Granted, it's been on a shelve for the most of the last 6 years.

Bass Flatulance · Post by **Bass Flatulance** » Sat Jan 10, 2015 9:37 am

Hasn't the cost of copper gone way up in the past decade? My god the price on electrical wiring has gone up like crazy.

Bass Flatulance · Post by **Bass Flatulance** » Sat Jan 10, 2015 9:52 am

My bad then. I never was a smart bloke.

PMeuph · Post by **PMeuph** » Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:59 am

Curmudgeon wrote:
bloke wrote:...some of which is why so much US manufacturing has been shuttered.
And also the reasons why as soon as the "new" workers feel the least bit empowered, they demand more than the scratch they're receiving thus longer making them a "bargain..."

So turns the worm and the world.

One of the important changes of some of the in the past 50 years, in North America, is the rise in housing costs. And, housing costs are often used in discussions about fair salaries and purchasing power.

Look, how often are you going to hear: "My parents purchased a house in 198X for $60 000 (Twice their annual salary) why can't I get a decent home for twice my starting salary"

Looking on a Canadian inflation calculator, the house my parents bought for $60 000 in 1985 should now cost $117,931.03. It isn't for sale, so I can't tell you exactly how much it would be, however the house that is just across the street is for sale for $325 000. Looking on a real estate web page, I can't find anything for sale for under $250 000 in that neighbourhood.

http://www.bankofcanada.ca/rates/relate ... alculator/" target="_blank

Using this type of logic, it becomes *easier* (as well as through better access to information concerning salaries vis-a-vis responsibilities, more resources to find jobs, easier moves, more powerful unions, amongst other things) to ask for a raise.

PM "not condoning this, just pointing it out" euph

tbn.al · Post by **tbn.al** » Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:10 am

Nothing mouths the words "supply and demand" quite as well as the real estate market.

PMeuph · Post by **PMeuph** » Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:39 am

tbn.al wrote:Nothing mouths the words "supply and demand" quite as well as the real estate market.

Absolutely!

(I also didn't touch on the fact that 2-income families have become a reality/necessity? and have consequently driven the demand and prices of houses up.)

Doug Elliott · Post by **Doug Elliott** » Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:59 pm

bloke wrote:A "blank" (pre-cut cylinder) to make a one-piece brass tuba mouthpiece will weigh around 10 oz.

To make a one piece tuba mouthpiece requires a 2" round bar a little longer than 3-1/2"

That piece weighs 3 lbs 8 oz. I just weighed it.

Not 10 oz. ... 56 oz.

PMeuph · Post by **PMeuph** » Sat Jan 10, 2015 2:06 pm

Doug Elliott wrote:
bloke wrote:A "blank" (pre-cut cylinder) to make a one-piece brass tuba mouthpiece will weigh around 10 oz.
To make a one piece tuba mouthpiece requires a 2" round bar a little longer than 3-1/2"

That piece weighs 3 lbs 8 oz. I just weighed it.

Not 10 oz. ... 56 oz.

But, you can probably collect the 46 oz of brass shaving that are removed by the lathe/milling machine?/drill press? and then sell those for scrap, right?

Doug Elliott · Post by **Doug Elliott** » Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:16 pm

PMeuph wrote:
Doug Elliott wrote:
bloke wrote:A "blank" (pre-cut cylinder) to make a one-piece brass tuba mouthpiece will weigh around 10 oz.
To make a one piece tuba mouthpiece requires a 2" round bar a little longer than 3-1/2"

That piece weighs 3 lbs 8 oz. I just weighed it.

Not 10 oz. ... 56 oz.
But, you can probably collect the 46 oz of brass shaving that are removed by the lathe/milling machine?/drill press? and then sell those for scrap, right?

Of course (I do), and you can also spend hundreds or maybe thousands of hours of computer time (I have) and practice time (I have), and several tens of thousands of dollars (I have), on the machinery to produce those little brass chips.

PMeuph · Post by **PMeuph** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:30 am

Since we're talking about increases, I've never seen a $10.40 (CAD) mouthpiece shipped to me.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Silver-Gold-Big- ... 1c4c56ecbf" target="_blank

Billy M. · Post by **Billy M.** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:42 am

bloke wrote:Even my microscopic mpc. business collaboration runs into some of the same things (and some different things).

As demand grows (thanks, btw)...

Speaking of which, Joe, what's the word on those profundo rims?

bort · Post by **bort** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:59 am

bloke wrote:The difference in sonority (with virtually no difference in playing effort) is striking.

er... would you say the difference is profound?

MartyNeilan · Post by **MartyNeilan** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 2:39 pm

I think a solo mouthpiece with a profundo rim would be a great combination for many BAT's

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