Longer Third Valve Slide to Correct Intonation Issue?

[Polkahero]

Originally:

The D and Db right below the bass clef staff are both extremely sharp. I can almost live with the Db but the D is a problem. Even if I pull the first valve slide out all the way and lip down it's still noticeably sharp.

So, is there similar sharpness on Eb? E? F (open)? Is that partial just sharp on this tuba?

I do not understand how the Db can be almost liveable 2+3 and D 3 alone is impossible. and I'm used to 'chinese' scales

No sharpness on any other notes, must be this specific partial.

I should retract that original statement about the Db, after testing last night it's actually sharper than the D.

[Polkahero]

2 pages?! ...its a conundrum I tell you

It kind of is! Seems like I'm getting more questions than answers on here. Really surprised no one has encountered this before especially after reading older posts about the 191's tendencies to do this.

[barry grrr-ero]

You've tried "D" third valve with the slide pulled out and it was still sharp; yet, the rest of the notes played reasonably well in-tune? That almost seems hard to believe. Wouldn't the low G also be too sharp if the slide is too short?

Here's another thought. Assuming that you're first valve slide moves rather freely, how about putting on a left hand trigger for your 2nd valve slide, and try "D" with both the first and second valve slides out? Just a thought.

[swillafew]

Have somebody with great chops play the horn, and see what they do to tune the note.

[Polkahero]

You've tried "D" third valve with the slide pulled out and it was still sharp; yet, the rest of the notes played reasonably well in-tune? That almost seems hard to believe. Wouldn't the low G also be too sharp if the slide is too short?

Here's another thought. Assuming that you're first valve slide moves rather freely, how about putting on a left hand trigger for your 2nd valve slide, and try "D" with both the first and second valve slides out? Just a thought.

You mean a right hand thumb trigger for the second valve slide? Not sure how to manipulate pulling the first valve slide and a trigger at the same time with my left hand.

What about a main slide right hand thumb trigger?

[Polkahero]

Really surprised no one has encountered this before especially after reading older posts about the 191's tendencies to do this.

slowly...carefully...wrap your mind around this sentence

Why even bother to bump this thread if you have absolutely nothing to contribute? Guess some people just like to post randomly to increase their post counts. . .

[Roger Lewis]

Check the intonation on the whole horn. Several of these horns were delivered to US suppliers with European main tuning slides on them. If the main slide is 'way out, then you may have one of these horns. If so that might be the issue and if it is, I have a longer main tuning slide that I can send to you. Couldn't hurt.

Roger

[bisontuba]

[quote="Roger Lewis"]Check the intonation on the whole horn. Several of these horns were delivered to US suppliers with European main tuning slides on them. If the main slide is 'way out, then you may have one of these horns.....

Ugh.......Knowing horns are being sent to the U.S. market, how does this stuff happen? How hard is it for the Germans to include the correct tuning slide with horns going to the U.S.? Bad.....
My 2 cents....
Mark

[Roger Lewis]

Hey! Stuff happens, okay? I found the issue and have free longer slides if there is an issue with individual horns. I've given away a number of these slides to help people out.

Just trying to correct a flaw from 15 years ago.

Roger

[Polkahero]

bump

Looking for an update?

Long story short, Miraphone is going to build me a new third valve slide that is two inches longer (overall). Explanation for the intonation issue is that this is a tendency in larger bore horns. Actually, here's their response word for word:

"All valve slide lengths on our tubas are designed to be on the short side in order to give players some wiggle space for flat notes. The recommended fingerings are always to use as few valves as possible, therefore we recommend using the 3rd valve for the D instead of the 1-2 combination. For D-flat 2-3 is the only option, of course. The slides of 2nd and 3rd valve should be pulled enough to make the D-flat manageable, but not too far to make the G-flat to low. As always, the final adjustments of valve slides is a compromise between the notes on the horns with sharp tendencies and the others that tend to be flat. The 191 is a fairly large bore horn, which makes intonation a bit more challenging, of course. The 186 model series, for example, is a 4/4 bore tuba and intonation is much more solid on these moderately big horns."

Thanks for the offer, Roger, but I have the main slide only out an inch. Nothing wrong other than these two notes.