What J. W. Pepper was selling in 1894

The bulk of the musical talk
Post Reply
User avatar
Dave Detwiler
bugler
bugler
Posts: 223
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:20 pm
Location: Harleysville, PA

What J. W. Pepper was selling in 1894

Post by Dave Detwiler »

I've been working my way through some old microfilms of J. W. Pepper publications, and I thought you all might enjoy seeing the following:
Pepper tubas - 1894.JPG
Pepper euphonium - 1894.JPG
Played an F. E. Olds 4-valve BBb in high school (late '70s)
Led the USC Trojan Marching Band tuba section (early '80s)
Now playing an F. Schmidt (=VMI) 3301 and goofing around
on a 1927 Pan American 64K Sousaphone Grand
User avatar
Dan Schultz
TubaTinker
TubaTinker
Posts: 10427
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Newburgh, Indiana
Contact:

Re: What J. W. Pepper was selling in 1894

Post by Dan Schultz »

WOW! Perfectly in-tune AND tone! Wish they were still around!
Dan Schultz
"The Village Tinker"
http://www.thevillagetinker.com" target="_blank
Current 'stable'... Rudolf Meinl 5/4, Marzan (by Willson) euph, King 2341, Alphorn, and other strange stuff.
WC8KCY
3 valves
3 valves
Posts: 342
Joined: Thu May 21, 2009 12:24 am

Re: What J. W. Pepper was selling in 1894

Post by WC8KCY »

That helicon sure looks like an E-flat, despite being described as a BB-flat.
User avatar
opus37
5 valves
5 valves
Posts: 1326
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:22 pm
Location: Woodbury, MN

Re: What J. W. Pepper was selling in 1894

Post by opus37 »

The helicon does resemble an Eb. This add says the bell diameter is 20 inches. I have an 1893 J.W.Pepper Eb helicon. The bell diameter is 14.5 inches. The mouthpiece, tuning bit and lead pipe look identical. Yes, it is very easy blowing and it does have a big sound. Tone is pretty good too. I'm still working on the tuning. It is a low pitch and needs some adjustment to play 440. Mine is the bright brass version (which currently needs some polishing).
Brian
1892 Courtiere (J.W. Pepper Import) Helicon Eb
1980's Yamaha 321 euphonium
2007 Miraphone 383 Starlight
2010 Kanstul 66T
2016 Bubbie Mark 5
User avatar
bigtubby
4 valves
4 valves
Posts: 747
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:43 pm
Location: Ohio

Re: What J. W. Pepper was selling in 1894

Post by bigtubby »

WC8KCY wrote:That helicon sure looks like an E-flat, despite being described as a BB-flat.
The viewpoint of the engraving looks like the 3rd and 4th branches disappear behind the first branch. Look at the angle and shading where the 3rd branch "meets" the first branch.

Second valve circuit also looks way too long for an Eb horn. BBb from where I sit.
American sailboats, airplanes, banjos, guitars and flutes ...
Italian motorcycles and cars ...
German cameras and tubas ...
Life is Good.
User avatar
opus37
5 valves
5 valves
Posts: 1326
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:22 pm
Location: Woodbury, MN

Re: What J. W. Pepper was selling in 1894

Post by opus37 »

J.W. Pepper was really a sheet music publisher. I don't think they manufactured any instruments, they imported them. My Eb is engraved "imported by J.W. Pepper". This catalog came out after mine was made by a year or two. They likely had some special engraving done for the American Market and dropped the "imported by". If you look at the image of my horn listed below, you will see the strong similarities in design between the catalog helicon and my horn.
http://www.horn-u-copia.net/show.php?se ... urtiere%22" target="_blank
Brian
1892 Courtiere (J.W. Pepper Import) Helicon Eb
1980's Yamaha 321 euphonium
2007 Miraphone 383 Starlight
2010 Kanstul 66T
2016 Bubbie Mark 5
WC8KCY
3 valves
3 valves
Posts: 342
Joined: Thu May 21, 2009 12:24 am

Re: What J. W. Pepper was selling in 1894

Post by WC8KCY »

If I'm not mistaken, J. W. Pepper also sold stencil instruments built by American makers, notably Conn.
User avatar
windshieldbug
Once got the "hand" as a cue
Once got the "hand" as a cue
Posts: 11516
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:41 pm
Location: 8vb

Re: What J. W. Pepper was selling in 1894

Post by windshieldbug »

WC8KCY wrote:If I'm not mistaken, J. W. Pepper also sold stencil instruments built by American makers, notably Conn.
And also Henry Distin. In fact, if one examines the actual instruments, Distin helped Pepper start manufacturing and the serial numbers appear to be a direct continuation of Distin's own numbers from New York/Philadelphia...
Instead of talking to your plants, if you yelled at them would they still grow, but only to be troubled and insecure?
User avatar
opus37
5 valves
5 valves
Posts: 1326
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:22 pm
Location: Woodbury, MN

Re: What J. W. Pepper was selling in 1894

Post by opus37 »

Based on the image in this ad and looking at my F. Courtiere imported by Pepper, they are the same design. I think the helicon in the ad is either a stencil or a copy. I think a stencil is more likely because they are made within a year or so of each other.
Brian
1892 Courtiere (J.W. Pepper Import) Helicon Eb
1980's Yamaha 321 euphonium
2007 Miraphone 383 Starlight
2010 Kanstul 66T
2016 Bubbie Mark 5
User avatar
windshieldbug
Once got the "hand" as a cue
Once got the "hand" as a cue
Posts: 11516
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:41 pm
Location: 8vb

Re: What J. W. Pepper was selling in 1894

Post by windshieldbug »

The McKinley Act of 1891 required that all instruments be labeled with information on where it was manufactured. If it is not marked "Bohemia" or something similar, odds are it was made in the U.S.
It was customary to base designs on existing instruments because there was no reliable way to design the bore profile and it was not easy to prototype new instruments without actually making templates and building them. Design simulations didn't exist at that time.
Instead of talking to your plants, if you yelled at them would they still grow, but only to be troubled and insecure?
Post Reply