Sound differences between F & Eb cimbassos of the same bore?

[imperialbari]

At least one brand offers F and Eb cimbasso models, which basically are of the same bell, body, and bore dimensions with two different sets of main and valve slides. Both models have 5 valves and a 1st slide trigger. The bore is fairly large at 18.5mm, where my F and Eb tubas both have a bore of 17.5mm.

Would the the Eb model tend towards a sound with more depth?

Klaus

[Wyvern]

I have played the Wessex F and Eb cimbasso out and really cannot tell any difference in sound, or response. I advise to get in whichever pitch you are most comfortable playing.

[imperialbari]

My Eb reading is better than my F reading. So I wanted an F cimbasso to support my training that F reading.

However, my experience from woodwinds tells that the lower of two nearby pitched instruments of the same bore tends to have a deeper sound with a denser overtone content.

Elsewhere you told that you will sell Eb slides for the F model. I guess the reverse also goes. My only worry in that matter would be about the length of the trigger push rod. What about that matter?

Klaus

[jeopardymaster]

I anticipated response issues on the one F cimbasso that I tried, particularly on the infamous low C. But I was pleasantly surprised - it was a very even tempered instrument. I still plan, if I ever get a cimbasso, to get an Eb, but that's only because I play Eb tuba instead of F. But here's a query to those of you who have tried cimbassi - do you notice the same issues as arise on F tubas? Do they typically have the same sort of "donut hole" as a lot of Fs do?

[imperialbari]

Somebody grasped the two first steps of twelve. Sadly in descendance.

[MaryAnn]

What are the sound differences between a cimbasso and a bass trombone? Could a person with a cimbasso in a community band successfully masquerade playing the bass trombone part?

[Ferguson]

What are the sound differences between a cimbasso and a bass trombone? Could a person with a cimbasso in a community band successfully masquerade playing the bass trombone part?

Cimbasso will be big and broad and loud and ugly and blatty. Well that's sort of like bass trombone, isn't it?

Cimbasso is a valved contrabass trombone, and I believe the history of its name means "the bass instrument that sits next to the bass trombone player". So not really a substitute. These modern cimbassos compare to bass trombone as F tuba compares to euphonium, or contrabass trombone compares to bass trombone.

F
/bass trombones are cheaper anyway
//and lighter
///and easier to place on an instrument stand

[Bob Kolada]

I don't think a cimbasso is a good replacement for regular, everyday bass trombone playing. If I wanted a valved replacement to a slide bass trombone I'd look into getting a cheap bass trombone bell and a euph, preferably rotary, valve set. I guess you could also "90G" one together with a 321 valve set or something.

[Donn]

For me ... any time you talk about substituting one instrument for another, it's going to mean some compromises, so maybe it kind of comes down to how bad is too bad. A good player on a good cimbasso, playing on certain parts that suit the cimbasso particularly well, might sound quite a bit better than a poor bass trombone player.

One thing you might have to watch out for is the extreme low range, which at best is going to be a little complicated to play as well in tune on the cimbasso, am I right? And in terms of both intonation and timbre, where there's a really tight blend with the rest of the trombones, that's apt to go a little sour.

As for Eb vs. F -- in principle, why would there be difference, other than pitch? An F cimbasso or valve trombone plus the first valve, is in principle the same tubing as an open Eb cimbasso, true? At least, more so than with the conical bore bass tuba.

[MaryAnn]

The reason I ask is that I cannot hold up a bass trombone, and the cimbasso rests on the floor. Remember this is a community band....sometimes there are two on the 2nd trombone part, and the bass trombone has decided to not show up for the last three rehearsals and also last night's concert. So I think a reliable person on an instrument that can be made to sound in the same ballpark as a bass trombone is not such a bad thing.

[oedipoes]

You could expand the question a bit:
What are the sound differences between F and Eb tubas of the same bore and similar valves-slides layout?
example: Miraphone Firebird F vs. Norwegian Star Eb?
Both have the same bore, same bell diameter, layout looks similar...

My guess: An audience will not hear if your cimbasso or your tuba is in F or EB, ... even tuba players will have a very hard time to tell whether an F or an Eb is being played.