BBb Tubas for High School

[apsapienza]

Need opinions on brands to consider. What should a high school invest in for their tuba students to play on? I don't really care about piston v. rotor, although it would seem pistons would be less maintenance. Front facing valves preferred, definitely 4 valves minimum. School budget of 5,000 USD per horn.

[eupher61]

My recommendation lately has been pretty simple: No matter WHAT you buy, avoid the Yamaha 321 BBb. I have no complaints about the playability of that tuba, just the size and unwieldly nature of it. And, again no matter what you buy, get the same style regarding top or front (side) valves.

You will get as many opinions as people respond.

[bisontuba]

If the BBb EASTMAN 534 is anything like the CC, it would be a tremendous choice for a school.
Mark

[Art Hovey]

My first choice for serious high school tubists would be the medium-size BBb from Big Mouth Brass. The King 2341 is also good, but the BMB is better in several ways, including price. Don't get the big one, don't get the "3/4" one, and don't get the Chinese clone of the 2341.

I don't agree that all of your school tubas should be the same style. Some people actually prefer top-action tubas, and I am always happy to share a music stand with a colleague who uses a YBB-321, even though I don't like that horn myself.

For high school kids who are less than serious about music but still like to play in the band my first choice would be the Conn 12J or the Olds 0-99. (Smaller, lighter, only 3 valves, but they can be played in tune with a little slide manipulation.)

[Watchman]

At that budget you are pretty much SoL as far as name brand horns goes. Miraphone, Yamaha, Conn, and King will be over 5K in most cases. You'll be in the realm of 3/4 horns, 3 valve horns, off-brands, or proprietary brands. Of those, Eastman is pretty decent.

How many horns does the school want to purchase? Perhaps it would be wise to get fewer instruments and up the budget per horn? If you go to around 6K (pre taxes), you could get Jupiter 582's. I think these are pretty nice horns for the price and would meet all the criteria you are looking for.

[Watchman]

Republic of China instruments seem to be imported by an American based company, retailed to stores, and then double-retailed to end-users for 3/4ths to 4/5ths of the prices of "comparable" American/German instruments...rather than competing, price-wise, with other Asian instruments' pricing. I just don't know how much longer that business model can sustain itself.

The EastKing, I'd guess, is a really good tuba. (I haven't played one...' picture sure looks nice).

I'm not very excited about Yamaha sousaphones, but the Eastaha sousaphone (which I HAVE dealt with in 3D) looks/plays so much like a Yamaha sousaphone that I can't help but wonder if Eastman isn't now making the Yamaha sousaphones.

Yamaha makes all their student line in China and Indonesia now. Only intermediate and pro level is still made in Japan. I suppose it's possible the same factory could be making instruments and stamping some "Yamaha" and others "Eastman".

[The Big Ben]

My nephew's middle school is looking for a better tuba for the band. The one they have is in poor shape and there isn't enough money dedicated to sending it to be fixed (there are other instruments in poor shape.) The district says 'no used instruments' and 'no donations for repairs'. A Conn 5J is $6700 with case. It isn't a wealthy school (about 50% on free/reduced lunch) and fundraising isn't going too well. Kind of puts 'em in a bind. I can see why a $2500 Chinese horn looks so attractive.

[bort]

They clearly haven't accepted that they aren't a wealthy school. Refusing used instruments and repair donations should have coherent, tax-paying parents seeking answers and change.

Today's administators seem to be moving further and further away from reality.

What is the penalty if you just buy used instruments anyway? There are worse rules to break...

Maybe it's normal, but I'm actually surprised at the autonomy that schools seem to have in this. My recollection from HS was that all purchase orders went through the county (there were ~30 high schools). So if you needed a new tuba, you would request it from the county... and in a month, or a year, or two years, a new tuba would show up, depending on if there was one in stock of if they knew that you were "due" for a new instrument.

Always a Yamaha, and almost always one of the goofy 3-valve top action ones. Sounds kind of Soviet now that I think back on it... I waited 2 years for new valve guides that never came. That was pre-internet, if that were now, I would have just fixed it myself!

[timothy42b]

Don't forget about military surplus. Our local band has a bassoon, euphonium, and cornet, all quality instruments in good condition, purchased at very low prices.

[eupho]

the St. Petersburg 202N BBb(TubaExchange.com) is a good choice for under $5000. I have played several including one for a year or so with my professional quintet.

[bort]

the St. Petersburg 202N BBb(TubaExchange.com) is a good choice for under $5000. I have played several including one for a year or so with my professional quintet.

How durable do you think these would be for HS kids? Indestructible or dent magnets? That was always the thing about the old American tubas from the 50s and 60s that were in schools when I was in school... yes, they desperately needed some basic repairs, CLEANING, valve alignments, etc. But structurally, they handled the daily beating very well, and were built to last.

My concern with the budget options is that they might not stand up to the abuse as well. I'm not sure anything will, but still, it would be my concern. After all, what's better -- $6,000 for a horn for 20 years, of $2,000 every XX years for 20 years? I don't know if there's an answer to that or not, but it's a question I would ask myself.

[Watchman]

I knew that...
...and I'd guess that many of the 4/6-series (if 6 series even exist that much anymore) Yamaha instruments are made in China as well...

Much of the 4-series stuff shares many parts with the 2-series stuff, so it just doesn't seem logical to me that mostly-common-parts instruments would be made in two different countries...(I'm not taking much about "tubas" here, but about stuff that they actually sell a whole bunch of.)

I know that Yamaha considers 6 series to be the start of "professional" quality. The only one of these I have ever seen personally, not counting those "pro" 3/4 tubas, is the 62III sax, which is stamped Made in Japan. Haven't seen too many of the 4-series stuff. I believe the 3-series, which is considered "intermediate" by some, is mostly made in China. I don't really consider these to be that much of an improvement over the student horns, but at my local shop, they seem to be the most popular step-up instruments. I can't say I'm an expert on all things Yamaha, so I could be wrong about this stuff.

Back to the OP, I still recommend going for something a little more expensive. I always forget about St. Pete tubas. Those are alright, but the nickel plating can get really nasty after a few years.

[eupho]

The school district I live in bought 2 St Pete's a few years ago and they seem to be holding up well. The BD at the time was a tubist. A private student of mine played one of them. The teacher has to teach the players to respect the instruments.

[bort]

Respect -- towards self, peers, teachers, equipment... is another whole issue. I know I mentioned abuse of the instrument, but I'm also curious about straight up wear and tear. I'm not doubting that the Chinese tubas have got it in 'em, but the brands many people are choosing now just haven't been around that long.

I know it's just metal, but...

[The Big Ben]

They clearly haven't accepted that they aren't a wealthy school. Refusing used instruments and repair donations should have coherent, tax-paying parents seeking answers and change.

Today's administators seem to be moving further and further away from reality.

What is the penalty if you just buy used instruments anyway? There are worse rules to break...

The people making the rules sign the purchase orders.

Besides, if a purchase order is submitted for 50 unbridged English dictionaries, made payable to "Big Ben's Bookstore" and they bring home my Olds 099-4 with mouthpiece and case, questions will be asked and, rightly, heads would roll.

[Donn]

Band directors around here (everywhere...??) seem to think that rotary tubas are "it".

I wonder if any of them would consider a rotary valve sousaphone, even for a moment.

[tclements]

I would think a set of Mirafone 186-4U's would fit the bill.

[Daniel C. Oberloh]

Two horns are all I will consider for high schools. They are based on the performance level of program, its needs, location, the level of maintenance and the type of care they will receive. The two are the Miraphone 186-4U and the King 2341. That is all. These are the two instruments that are known for their playability, durable build quality, parts availability and at a reasonable price (you get your moneys worth). I see Kings that are still in use after seventy years and Miraphones that are half a century old and still going strong. My High School Mirafone from 1967 is still in service in that same band room as are the other five or so, in the other High schools that the district purchased at the same time. Yes, several have been rebuilt once or twice (I did at least three or four) since then but that is a testament to the serviceability of the instrument. You can get cheaper instruments but you can't get better for the same money. And when the time comes to get them repaired PROPERLY, the parts are available. I would suggest one change and that would be Miraphones with a standard bell-bead instead of a wreath. Many repair techs are not comfortable repairing them and often times programs cheap out when it comes to correcting the damage properly.

D.C. Oberloh
Oberloh Woodwind and Brass Works
http://www.oberloh.com" target="_blank

[iiipopes]

I'm with Dan - half way. I would only consider the King 2341. It is mouthpiece insensitive. It has good overall intonation and tone. It is easy to play. It has a nested valve cluster that lessens the risk of incidental damage. It has been made in essentially the same form for over a century, so any shop worth is tools should have crash parts in its morgue. It is made of substantial enough metal that is should last for decades, not just years.

The best alternative would be to find a few refurb King tubas for @ $3000 and save the extra money to purchase one contra-alto EEb clarinet to broaden the lower voices of the band.

[Watchman]

Two horns are all I will consider for high schools. They are based on the performance level of program, its needs, location, the level of maintenance and the type of care they will receive. The two are the Miraphone 186-4U and the King 2341. That is all. These are the two instruments that are known for their playability, durable build quality, parts availability and at a reasonable price (you get your moneys worth). I see Kings that are still in use after seventy years and Miraphones that are half a century old and still going strong. My High School Mirafone from 1967 is still in service in that same band room as are the other five or so, in the other High schools that the district purchased at the same time. Yes, several have been rebuilt once or twice (I did at least three or four) since then but that is a testament to the serviceability of the instrument. You can get cheaper instruments but you can't get better for the same money. And when the time comes to get them repaired PROPERLY, the parts are available. I would suggest one change and that would be Miraphones with a standard bell-bead instead of a wreath. Many repair techs are not comfortable repairing them and often times programs cheap out when it comes to correcting the damage properly.

D.C. Oberloh
Oberloh Woodwind and Brass Works
http://www.oberloh.com" target="_blank" target="_blank

I have a question about this. Do you mean any King 2341 or Miraphone 186? These models have changed a little over time. If the OP takes this advice and purchases a new version of one of these instruments, can they be expected to perform like older versions?