Hand Size

[cmonte]

Is there a difference between rotary and piston valves when it comes to hand size and strength?
Thanks!

[iiipopes]

I have a short pinky. Really short. So valvesets like the piston MW that have the offset 1st valve and inline 234 are completely out for me. The only .750-ish piston valve set I have ever liked is the arc of the Nirschel 4/4 CC. So I went with rotors. When I got my 186, just like a tailor, I made an appointment with my tech and we set the length, spread and height of each rotor paddle individually along with the thumb ring to fit my hand. That was a few years ago. I never have to fiddle with how my valves feel, just like a guy with a properly tailored suit doesn't have to keep tugging at his waistband or shake out his elbow when putting on a jacket. I just put it on and play.

[TubaSailor]

I have very large, almost "square" hands - they're almost as wide as they are long, so my fingers are relatively short. I had the opportunity to play more than a dozen assorted rotary and piston horns at one sitting several months ago. The only piston horn that really felt comfortable was a SMALL valve set piston HB-2P. The Meinl Weston large valve set was the most un-comfortable for me. Some of the piston sets could have been usable, but I knew I was looking at stiff hands after long rehearsals and practices. I play on rotary horns, and have had all of them adjusted to my hand size, and have no problems. (Other than pitch, rhythm, tempo, etc. ) I find the rotors more forgiving than pistons for side-loading (not pushing straight down) and not developing "habits" where pistons will sometimes stick when someone else uses the horn, or for whatever reason, I push them down differently. I really wanted to find a piston horn that fit - that was the intent of the shopping expedition, I just couldn't make it happen. There are many excellent players who work very well with piston valves, and maybe I simply haven't spent enough time with them, but I still do better with rotaries. YMMV -

[Rick Denney]

I'm the only white guy I know who can palm a basketball. I find that many instruments are not particularly flexible when it comes to hand size. Some instruments have a spread on the valves that causes even me to stretch to reach them, and for others they are arranged on a path that does not fall under the fingers. I installed an extension on the fourth valve of my York Master because of that. In the case of that instrument, my body was too long and my hand approached the valves from the wrong direction, leaving my (long) pinky dangling in air.

I set up the paddles on my (recently departed) Miraphone to be very close, and may do the same on the Hirsbrunner in time. (I will certainly unwind the springs one turn--they are too stiff on the Hirsbrunner.) The only issue I have with the pistons on the Holton is that the thumb ring is in the wrong place. (I wish that all tuba makers bought thumb rings from Hirsbrunner, by the way.)

Most people complain about the angle of valves on a Yamaha 621 F tuba, but I was never bothered in the least by them.

The point is: hand size is not the real issue (though it might be for someone with very small hands), but rather hand position and arm angle, and both people and tubas vary enough to prevent drawing conclusions related to the valve technology.

Rick "stands help" Denney

[MaryAnn]

And I'm on the opposite side of the spectrum with small hands, still in proportion for my size and with reasonably long fingers, but not only are pistons too far apart for me on anything but a trumpet, but with anything but top pistons the wrist angle is always wrong. I play a 3+1 euph and manage it, but it still limits what I can do speed-wise in comparison to rotors. With rotors, it's really more like playing piano....you just hit the keys and it doesn't matter exactly how you do it. I can't figure out how there are so many piston players out there, except maybe they just got used to how pistons slur (different from rotors) and don't/can't make the change.
MA

[jeopardymaster]

There are some piston horns that eat me alive - Yamaha 822 is one that immediately comes to mind. And I have pretty big hands too. It's the angle, I think - just ergonomically bad, for me anyway.

[NCSUSousa]

Re: Hand Strength - There are ways to strengthen or lighten the springs on either type of valve to suit your needs.
For piston instruments, it requires buying a replacement spring.
One of the sponsors here will sell you a set of lightweight valve buttons and some euphonium valve springs for a front action tuba to really lighten things up without sacrificing too much speed. For a top action piston tuba, the spring has to be strong enough to return the valve to the top of the travel.

For rotary tubas, the spring that came with the instrument can be wound or unwound to change the strength of the valve.
Some rotary tubas have 'clockspring' valve mechanisms that can be easily adjusted by the player. Here's an example - http://www.cerveny.biz/tuben/bbb_tuben/cbb_883_5pzx.php

One change I had made on my rotary tuba - I had the 4th valve spring wound tighter to make the valves feel even to me. Most people who play my horn (other than me) notice that the 4th valve is hard for them, but I've always had stronger hands than most due to years of piano and tuba.
The retiree who sits next to me in community band had all of his springs unwound to make the valves easier for his hands.

Is there a difference between rotary and piston valves when it comes to hand size and strength?
Thanks!

[The Big Ben]

My pinky finger is pretty short. It's about one inch shorter than the rest of my fingers. I may as well not have a 4th valve on my Olds 099-4. Might have to be creative to deal with the problem. Larger button? Move the thumb ring so I approach the valves at a different angle? I *don't* want to trade it in on a rotary horn that could have the paddles modified because, otherwise, I love the Olds.