Selmer Signet v. Conn 36K

[iiipopes]

I have an opportunity to pay a ridiculously low price to have a Selmer Signet refurbed out of a regional music store's morgue. But before I do, I would like opinions about the playability compared to what it is patterned after: Conn 14K or 36K. I'm looking for impressions from those who have played both about comparative intonation, tone, and quirks. I'm finally in a position to have a fiberglass souzy again, after I had to sell my Reynolds, and this is a good candidate from the same tech who swapped bells on my Bessophone, and who I have the utmost confidence of making the morgue parts into a usable horn. It's all there, including the neck; just needs going over to make sure everything is as it should be. I have played a Conn Cavalier, the predecessor of a 14K, 20K, 38K, Kings, Olds, Reynolds, Bueschers, and even a Martin, but I have not spent any significant time on a "real" 36K.

Those who have played both, or even a Selmer Signet and any other souzy, please comment. I know as well as anybody that it is usually "try before you buy," but in this case, I would have to commit in order to resurrect it out of the morgue. But the price would be worth it, if a Selmer Signet has good tone and intonation characteristics.

Thanks.

[Dan Schultz]

I've played both and I prefer the Selmer 'Signet'. I keep one here for those 'rowdy' outdoor gigs where I don't want to take the Conn 'Jumbo' or my custom helicon.

I use it for parades and such. The only downside I can come up with is that parts are getting scarce as compared to the Conn 36K which interchanges with a bazilion other Conn sousas out there.

[iiipopes]

Dan, thanks! Can you talk about any intonation quirks differences, like how flat are the flat 5th partials, especially 3rd space C?

[iiipopes]

Guys, thanks. Time to go talk to the tech. I may have found the next souzy for the upcoming outdoor/summer/July 4 season.

Let's see, this will be...
(from the beginning - institutional checked out horns)
King early fiberglass
Conn 20K
Conn 22K (yes - the gold-tone version)
King lacquer
(then since getting back into tuba playing in 2007, and either owning or extended borrowing of)
King silverplate
Conn Cavalier
Olds fiberglass
Buescher large bore fiberglass
Conn 38K
Reynolds fiberglass

...the 11th different souzy in 40 years, if I can close the deal on it.

[iiipopes]

Deal is done. It may actually be a "Bundy" rather than a "Selmer Signet," but as we all know, that is the same horn with different badging. It is all there, including the original fluted valve buttons and the original collar screws. He is going to re-work the upper 1st valve bow into a movable slide as I prefer. Target date is June 1 so I can have it for summer outdoor concerts.

[Dan Schultz]

Deal is done. It may actually be a "Bundy" rather than a "Selmer Signet," but as we all know, that is the same horn with different badging. It is all there, including the original fluted valve buttons and the original collar screws. He is going to re-work the upper 1st valve bow into a movable slide as I prefer. Target date is June 1 so I can have it for summer outdoor concerts.

These horns were badges Bundy, Selmer 'Signet', and I think I recall seeing some with the Buescher name. I think you will find any intonation 'quirks' very similar to other three-valve sousaphones. One good thing is that you will not experience any bell ring. If you really want a brass bell... I thing a Conn 14K bell will work on that horn.

[iiipopes]

Deal is done. It may actually be a "Bundy" rather than a "Selmer Signet," but as we all know, that is the same horn with different badging. It is all there, including the original fluted valve buttons and the original collar screws. He is going to re-work the upper 1st valve bow into a movable slide as I prefer. Target date is June 1 so I can have it for summer outdoor concerts.

Play-test it first. You may also (??) want him to SHORTEN that slide loop (while souping it up). If it plays like the extremely-similar 36K, the second-space C will be FLAT (1st valve slide pushed all the way in). IF (??) that is the case, wouldn't it be NICE to be able to push FAR ENOUGH to catch that C in-tune ?

Yes. We dry-fitted everything and discussed the 1st valve slide may need to be shortened on the low end after it's done and I play it awhile so it would be like a manual version of the Reynolds push me - pull you tuba first slide.

[iiipopes]

Deal is done. It may actually be a "Bundy" rather than a "Selmer Signet," but as we all know, that is the same horn with different badging. It is all there, including the original fluted valve buttons and the original collar screws. He is going to re-work the upper 1st valve bow into a movable slide as I prefer. Target date is June 1 so I can have it for summer outdoor concerts.

These horns were badges Bundy, Selmer 'Signet', and I think I recall seeing some with the Buescher name. I think you will find any intonation 'quirks' very similar to other three-valve sousaphones. One good thing is that you will not experience any bell ring. If you really want a brass bell... I thing a Conn 14K bell will work on that horn.

Thanks. I like the composite bell. Amazingly, it has absolutely no chips or cracks. So I will get a length of clear plastic tubing, slit it, and make a bell rim guard for it.

[toobagrowl]

You may also (??) want him to SHORTEN that slide loop (while souping it up). If it plays like the extremely-similar 36K, the second-space C will be FLAT (1st valve slide pushed all the way in).

I find that the open 4th-partial Bb right below first-valve-second-space C to also be flat on those horns (Signet, 36K, etc). Maybe about 10c or so flat, not too bad. 6th partial open F in the staff tends to ride high on those horns, at least on my Signet sousa. I also find the bracing & valveset metal on the Signet to be a little more robust than on the 36K.

[iiipopes]

I haven't played those enough to really know about their pitch characteristics...Thanks...

...and (at least on the all-brass versions of the Selmer sousaphones) YES, the bracing is WAY sturdier than the Conn 14K bracing...more like Conn 32K/20K bracing.

Indeed. Especially on the receiver where the two post braces form a strong triangle to the underlying tubing, and the banded braces from the valveset to the bugle. The bracing is one of the details that drew me to this particular horn, along with the heavier neck and bits.