Price of gas!

[ThomasDodd]

You want economy? Try a Volkswage Golf TDI with a manual trans. 38/46 MPG. I have done even better on the one I got to drive for a bit.

Is that a Diesel? I'd surely look into biodiesel if it was.

Been think about putting a diesel in a little toyota I have that needs a lot of engine work just to experiment with biodiesel and waste vegetable oil.

[Rick Denney]

1. Northern Virginia (a little--very little--outside the DC urban area).

2. Sunday

3. $2.25

4. Haven't been that way.

5. I've been driving a hell of a lot more, because I'm currently doing a project in Pennsylvania, so I've been driving to meetings rather than flying. But I had to put off a 6th-valve modification on my F tuba because of the hit on cash.

The increase in propane hit me much harder, though. I buy it 300 gallons at a whack, and the winter he has just hung on and hung on. This week has been the first warm weather we've had this year--many weeks later than usual.

Higher prices will bring more efficient cars. My car requirements include something I can haul clients around in, and that lets out vehicles that get in the 30's. My Subaru gets about 20 in town, and 22 on the highway. My wife's car is about the same. Both are wagons. The motorhome has remained parked, though for lack of time as much as anything (it gets about 9, which ain't bad considering it has pretty much the same engine as Mr. Dodd's '70 Caddy that only gets 7-8).

On the subject of distances and Merrie Old England, I recall having a discussion with one of the functionaries of the Ralph Vaughan Williams Society, of which I was a member at the time. He was asking why society members in Texas didn't get together for lunch they way the society did in England. I told him that Dallas was 250 miles from Houston, and 300 miles from San Antonio, and those three cities are in the eastern third of the state. Just how good would that lunch have to be?

By the way, Andy, we don't get reimbursed for commutation in the U.S., either. We do get reimbursed for business travel in excess of commutation, though. The current federal mileage rate is 40.5 cents/mile, which is just about right for my Subaru at 22 mpg, as long as I drive 25,000 miles a year (of course, most of those miles are not reimbursable). Every state and company has their only policy, but that's what I get reimbursed for miles driven on federal projects.

My commute is about 60 miles round trip, but that's the price I pay for having some air to breathe. It could be worse--I could work in DC.

The problem isn't that the price is that high for us--it's low compared to elsewhere. The problem is how suddenly it has increased. Cash flow is more marginal now than it was. But people will adjust. The price in real dollars is still lower than it has been at times in the past, even considering the too-conservative inflation calculations of the last few years.

Rick "spending an extra $100-300 each month for fuel" Denney

[Captain Sousie]

You want economy? Try a Volkswage Golf TDI with a manual trans. 38/46 MPG. I have done even better on the one I got to drive for a bit.

Is that a Diesel? I'd surely look into biodiesel if it was.

Been think about putting a diesel in a little toyota I have that needs a lot of engine work just to experiment with biodiesel and waste vegetable oil.

It is a diesel. One of the cleanest burning of its kind and bio-diesel friendly. Great car with suprising zip.

Sou

[Chuck(G)]

1. Eugene, OR
2. Last week, sometime
3. $2.19
4. $2.34
5. Not much

This is actually a good thing--got my first call today from a Texas oil outfit investigating reviving some of their marginal finds from 20 years ago. They're wondering if I can convert the survey data for them.

Prediction: Oil prices will stay pretty high, flucuating between $50-75/bbl, but more domestic wells will be drilled, keeping some of the $$$ in-country.
.

[TMurphy]

I did a little looking around on the internet, and it seems that because of low taxes on gas, coupled with the fact that there are many refineries in the state, NJ has the lowest gas prices in the country. Having read some of the posts here, I believe it. How long has gas been over $2.00 per gallon in some of your areas??? Here in Jersey, it's just now starting to reach that level.

Amazing, considering NJ is one of two states that outlaws self-serve gas stations. I'm pretty sure Oregon is the only other state that does that (Chuck???).

[Joe Baker]

1. Eugene, OR
2. Last week, sometime
3. $2.19
4. $2.34
5. Not much

This is actually a good thing--got my first call today from a Texas oil outfit investigating reviving some of their marginal finds from 20 years ago. They're wondering if I can convert the survey data for them.

Prediction: Oil prices will stay pretty high, flucuating between $50-75/bbl, but more domestic wells will be drilled, keeping some of the $$$ in-country.
.

I've wondered how long it would take for that to happen. My mother-in-law was an exploration geologist for Arco until they just shut down their entire domestic exploration back in the early 90's, when oil went below $20/bbl. They also capped a bunch of wells that were costing as much to pump as they were producing. I know a lot of those wells are pretty much lost by this point, but I wonder if some of them could be revived.

You know, we all said that when the price of Arab oil got high enough, we'd find a way to become independent of it. Maybe that time is now.
__________________________________
Joe Baker, who is secretly glad to have extra incentive to look for a fuel-efficient vehicle.

[ThomasDodd]

The motorhome has remained parked, though for lack of time as much as anything (it gets about 9, which ain't bad considering it has pretty much the same engine as Mr. Dodd's '70 Caddy that only gets 7-8 ).

thats around town mind you, not highway. I jumps over 12 there

The problem isn't that the price is that high for us--it's low compared to elsewhere. The problem is how suddenly it has increased. Cash flow is more marginal now than it was. But people will adjust. The price in real dollars is still lower than it has been at times in the past, even considering the too-conservative inflation calculations of the last few years.

Instead of inflation adjusted, I'd like to see % of pay. Both pre tax and after, since taxes have changed a lot too. I suspect fuel is a much lower % of funds than in the past. Just everyone has been living above their means (credit cards, home refinancing) for far too long. The debt culture leads to trouble, and this is an example of why. Minor changes in expenditures cause big headaches. Imagine if beef or milk prices were to increase like/with fuel prices.

[Ricko]

1 Nashville, TN
2 Last Night
3 $2.19
4 $2.19
5 I don't do 85mph from Bellevue to downtown to keep from getting run over... I keep it around 75 and stay in line with the others.

I notice on a trip to Lexington, KY a few weeks ago that truck traffic has slowed substantially. It used to be a death defying trip - it was much more calm passing all the trucks doing 65 in the right lane.

If we could just keep the chinese from pushing demand up gas might get cheaper.

[TexTuba]

I tell you what it sure makes those Hybrid cars seem more and more attractive, well at least to me.....





Ralph

[ken k]

I live near Reading, PA and Tueday I put gas in the car for 2.09 and Wed. put gas in the van at the same station for 2.19. Those p[rices are for regular Premium was up to 2.49. Didn't notice what it was today.

I haven't changed driving habits too much. I just bought a BMW motorcycle and I plan to start riding that more.
Escort ZX2 get about 30 mpg and the Mazda MPV van gets about 18 mpg.
ken k

[Matt G]

Yeah, I've noticed this as well. None of the trucks are blowing through here at 85 or 90 as in the very recent past. Every single one was going 65 or slower. I have followed suit and my Jeep is getting far better mileage now. I just need to leave earlier in the morning by about 15 minutes and all is well. Not a bad habit to practice.

Statistics say you'll live longer, too. Not from accident causes, but from stress induced symptoms.

In the one ob I used to hold that I really hated, I started driving to work a 55 mph down the highway with some sort of zen/feng-sheu deal going on. It put me in the "zone". The idiots I worked with were the same, but they got to me a lot less.

It is a true that driving above the speed limit can induce stress hormones to be produced.

Driving the speed limit can be healty. Not to mention an improvement in gas mileage.

[Leland]

On a tangent --

Driving the speed limit is only calming for me if everyone else is driving the speed limit, too.

Since that's never the case, I'll just go with the flow of traffic. I'll make sure that I'm not the fastest one out there, but I also make sure that I'm not going to be an obstacle that prompts everybody else to do some lane-shuffling to get around me.

Speed may kill, yes; but high differentials in speed will cause more accidents.

[Matt G]

Isn't it incredible how much cheaper gasoline is now than it was in the past????

I remember when I was in junior high school gasoline was $.40 gallon and Mirafone 186 tubas were $700.

Now, Miraphone tubas are $6000 (over 8X as much) and gasoline is only $2.25 (less than 6X as much)...and this is with at least $.50/gal taxes now added to the price of gasoline!!!

At $2.25, in the modern U.S. economy folks don't even "budget" for their weekly gasoline. Even lower income folks probably spend more money weekly on pre-prepared foods (read: "A CONVENIENCE/A LUXURY") than they do on gasoline.

bloke "gasoline-schmasoline"

Yeah, well, I remember the IBM 386 compy that my dad bought in 1992. $2400. Now, I can get a compy that is better in magnitudes from Dell for $500.

A better comparison is the cost of milk or eggs and the cost of gasoline. They have similar economic properites (# of substitutes, elasticity, etc.).

1960 cost of one gallon of milk: 49 cents
2005 cost of one gallon of milk: $3.69

1960 cost of eggs: 42 cents
2005 cost of eggs: $1.89

1960 cost of a gallon of gas: 31 cents
2005 cost of a gallon of gas: $2.22

Increase in Milk price: 7.53 times
Increase in egg price: 4.5 times
Increase in gas price: 7.16 times

How about this?

Cost of a home in 1960: $16,500
Cost of a home in 2005: $265,000

Increase in price: 16.06 times


Gasoline prices sit somewhere in the middle of the big picture, increase-wise. Think about how much better a new car is in nearly every single way than a car from 45 years ago. Safety, reliability, performance, etc. have all been improved. So not only has the price of gas been not that big of a deal, we should be using less of it because of effeciencies. However, the prices stating artificially low have driven US consumers to not gain certain effeciencies, i.e. purchsing SUV's.

People who do not budget for transportation costs in their family are asking for trouble, though, as all expenses should be taken into account.

[Tubaryan12]

If you really want to relax while driving on the freeway do this: make sure there is at least 2-3 car lengths of space between you and the car in front of you. This distance can always be maintained by slowing down slightly (take foot off gas...not hitting brakes) and allow the gap to build every time someone cuts in front of you. Its amazing how much less stress I have on my 30 mile freeway commute. It only takes a few more minutes to get to your destination and you don't wear out your brakes as fast (78k on my original brakes so far and that includes a year of pizza delivery). Oh, and a added benefit....by not braking as much you will save gas!

[Benjamin]

I'm a teenager. Naturall my generation is eger to get our linse and drive. With the price of gas I ride the bus to school and walk to work. My friends laugh at me, but the joke is on them. They got to spen like 1/2 or their paycheck or better to put gas in their vehicals. I think they need to post the price like this:
Regular: Arm
Mid-Grade: Leg
Premieum: Arm and Leg.

Benjamin.

[Benjamin]

[quote="the elephant"]Benjamin,

Here ya go!

[img]http://www.dgci.net/archives/mt-static/ ... prices.jpg[/img][/quote] Thank God I'm the seconed child.
Benjamin.

[Chuck(G)]

You know, if everyone would DECIDE to switch to Hydrogen powerd cars, no one would really have this problem of gas prices.

---Except that you may have to pay more to travel the same mileage. Allow me to give you three good reasons why hydrogen may not be the answer:

1. Hydrogen isn't an energy source; unless you live on the sun, the free form doesn't occur naturally. So you have to make it from something. While electrolysis can be used, it isn't very efficient. So you lose a bunch of energy making it. The only other common ways to make hydrogen is to split the hydrogen off of a water molecule using carbon (coke oven) or to split the hydrogen from the carbon in natural gas. Either way, you're still using a fuel to create a fuel, which means inefficiency.

2. Hydrogen isn't an efficient energy storage medium. As a matter of fact, there's more hydrogen in a gallon of gasoline than in a gallon of liquid hydrogen. To make hydrogen into a liquid and keep it that way for transport, you have to expend more energy. And the energy density isn't that great--in the lab, we used to demonstrate that you can run your hand through a small high-temperature oxy-hydrogen flame without damage. It burns with a high temperature, but packs very little heat. (That's one of the reasons that welders use acetylene and not hydrogen for a fuel).

3. There's no transport or distribution structure in place. You simply can't use existing oil pipelines or gas pumps for distribution. Given the nature of hydrogen, any transport system is going to be very expensive.

What may be the answer is a multi-modal transportation system. Electric vehicles for around-town short-haul driving. (Too bad GM decided to crush their EV-1 fleet; the cars were very popular). Fossil-fuel burners for long haul.

The automakers are building 'concept cars" that run on hydrogen mostly because there is plenty of gummint money to be had to do so. But no one's got good answers for the above three issue in spite of the hype.

Iceland's working on converting some of their public transporation system to hydrogen, but it's a different scenario. Sixty percent of Iceland lives in Reykjavik, every drop of oil is imported, and there is plentiful geothermal energy (they generate electricity and heat buildings with it there).

No easy answers.

Chuck "who can remember when Ronald Reagan proposed cold fusion as the answer to our energy problems"(G)

[ken k]

You know, if everyone would DECIDE to switch to Hydrogen powerd cars, no one would really have this problem of gas prices. I mean, they arent readilly avalible yet, but people just need to do somthing about it to make it happen soon, like letters to the car companies, or somthing, because the more people wait, the higher the gas prices are going to get, as fuel reserves get low. Its only going to hurt the consumers if this continues. I'm not trying to be mean, but its true. Its only going to cost you big bucks. Personally, I've seent those concept cars, and think their pretty cool. I am juat speaking my mind, however. I just feel that we could rid ourselves of this burden if we try and do something about it, instead of sitting, and watching inflation of the gas prices.

With millions of acres of farmland to grow corn in the "breadbasket of the world" Why not use more alcohol blends with the gas to help cut our dependence on oil? I guess the oil companies wouldn't like that idea though, but they could start buying all the farmland....

That may be more esxpensive though, but I think in the long run it would be better. At least when the oil companies raise their proces so much the re is still a percentage of the product that may remain stable.

ken k

[Tom]

With millions of acres of farmland to grow corn in the "breadbasket of the world" Why not use more alcohol blends with the gas to help cut our dependence on oil? I guess the oil companies wouldn't like that idea though, but they could start buying all the farmland....

That may be more esxpensive though, but I think in the long run it would be better. At least when the oil companies raise their proces so much the re is still a percentage of the product that may remain stable.

ken k

Living in Iowa, I buy Ethanol Blended Gasoline (called Gasohol around here)

It's usually 10-15 cents cheaper than buying "regular," and it works just as well, if not better, than regular unleaded gasoline. It's sold as "super" because it's usually between 87-90 octane, whereas "regular" is usually about 85 here.

More information here:

http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/publications/inf ... 1_1991.cfm

[Matt G]

Good luck in a severe accident with a hydrogen powered vehicle.

If we could gete a better quality diesel fuel here and the broad selection of diesel engines that you can get in Europe, a lot more folks would be driving a diesel vehicle. Unfortunately, GM screwed up diesels for a large part of the US market with their hack-job attempt at turning a gasoline engine into a diesel one with as little re-engineering as possible.

Heck, even some of the "Sports-Line" type cars in Europe have diesel engines.