Identify this horn

[EMC]

I thought I knew what this was, people have told me it is a bill bell model but it looks pretty different than the bill bell model I have now, it didn't play the same either it had a much tighter sound that became aggressive and brazen rather quickly but with a definite core to it, the left had 5th rotor does make sense if you try to call it a bill bell but I've never seen one with a garland and the wrap is completely different too, what do you guys think?

[bort]

Can't tell what size anything is, but it looks like an MW-32 with a detachable bell... Which I *think* was called the MW-33.

[EMC]

Sorry this is the only picture I have left of it but I really don't think it was a 32 with detachable bell, It was much smaller overall and had a 16in ish bell

[Jay Bertolet]

This looks more like a Miraphone to me, but I can't really see the maker's mark to know for sure. It was very common in the 70s and 80s to attempt to give more stability to the sound of those older Miraphones (that were made with very thin gauge metal and tended to break up at louder volumes) by adding a detachable bell collar to the horn. People also tried belts, multiple layers of duct tape, and eventually something called a "tone ring" that was incorporated into the design of the old MW 2165. The only thing that doesn't look Miraphone to me on this horn is the 5th valve wrap. Horns of that era used a 2 step 5th valve but the one pictured clearly is not. Maybe an added 5th valve? Most confusing horn.

[bort]

The 3rd valve wrap screams Meinl Weston. There aren't many MW horns mit kranz, but I think I've seen a few.

[cjk]

Can't tell what size anything is, but it looks like an MW-32 with a detachable bell... Which I *think* was called the MW-33.

I think bort is right. It looks like a MW32. It doesn't look like a William Bell model.

Do google image searches for each and compare and I think you'll come to the same conclusion.

measuring the bore size even with a ruler or tape measure would probably confirm this. The Bell model was like .689" while the 32 was like .770".

[Dan Schultz]

I believe these images to be of a Meinl 33.

[imperialbari]

Skærmbillede 2015-05-17 kl. 03.51.50.png

This is the dual-purpose 5th valve wrap that MW used for the Bill Bell model, which had a 0.789" bore.

In the photo the 5th valve is set to a long whole step. By switching the positions of the top slides the closed loop could be added for a long minor third configuration.

Klaus

[Mark E. Chachich]

I agree with Bort, that looks like the MW 33. The wrap looks like my MW 32. I have seen the MW 32 with a bell garland (pre-1972?), so I assume that this was possible on a MW 33.

Question, is the metal thick? Every MW 32 that I have seen has thick metal, every older Miraphone that I have seen has thin metal.

Mark

[Ken Herrick]

Mark is right about that 5th valve slide setup. I had a c70 vintage 32 which had it and the bell garland on the 'larger', fixed bell. The bell made me think of the Bill Bell model. VERY early examples I saw had the small, detachable bell with garland. I am not sure when the 5th valve became available.

I removed the entire 5th from the 32 I had and, to me, it played much better.

[EMC]

The ferrules etc on this tuba look identical to my Bell model. (note, there were 3-4 models called 'Bell-model', right?)

The comment about thick metal applies to my MW.

3-4 bell models? That makes sooooo much more sense then, and I remember this being a very heavy tuba especially for being 186ish sized, so it probably had thick metal, I doubt the bell collar added too much weight.

[bort]

One other thought -- every Bill Bell model I've seen has a different 4th valve wrap than this one. Not saying that this can't be some other earlier version of a Bill Bell, but the wrap looks more like the 32 than the 37.

Either way, it's a neat looking tuba!

[bort]

IIRC...

30 = standard w/4 valves
31 = standard w/4 valves and detachable bell
32 = standard w/5 valves
33 = standard w/5 valves and detachable bell

35 = William Bell model w/4 valves
37 = William Bell model w/5 valves

I don't think there were different model numbers for the 35/37 depending on one-piece or detachable bell.

[bort]

Again, I'm no expert, but I've only seen vertical and narrow.

[EMC]

Well for reference this is my current "bell" model which is no doubt a bell model even has it engraved on the Bell along with N-145 whatever that is.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ulz8xnvgliqhb ... 1.jpg?dl=0" target="_blank

[Dan Schultz]

There are many folks who think Bill Bell should have spent a few more years with King to make the King rotary CC tubas better before moving on to Meinl-Weston. Intonation of the King rotary horns was less than spectacular and some of the early Meinl models were about as bad.

Does anyone know of ANY tubas that were great in their first runs? I'm just curious. Maybe start another thread.

[EMC]

My 1969 model 37(?)

Not sure why but I can't see whatever pic you posted

[EMC]

There are many folks who think Bill Bell should have spent a few more years with King to make the King rotary CC tubas better before moving on to Meinl-Weston. Intonation of the King rotary horns was less than spectacular and some of the early Meinl models were about as bad.

Does anyone know of ANY tubas that were great in their first runs? I'm just curious. Maybe start another thread.

Probably not, I'd imagine you have to mess up a few times before you get it just right, but I'm not exactly well read enough to probably contribute

[TheHatTuba]

IIRC...

30 = standard w/4 valves
31 = standard w/4 valves and detachable bell
32 = standard w/5 valves
33 = standard w/5 valves and detachable bell

35 = William Bell model w/4 valves
37 = William Bell model w/5 valves

I don't think there were different model numbers for the 35/37 depending on one-piece or detachable bell.

Adding to the confusion; Did not 'Bell' models include both horizontal and vertical (both wide and narrow) tuning slides?
Mine is vertical/narrow.

Pretty sure both the wide and the narrow tuning slides were vertical. EMC's has the wide main tuning slide, whereas yours has the narrow main tuning slide.

[EMC]

My 1969 model 37(?)

I wish I knew what year mine is from, I assume the wide tuning slide came later but there isn't a serial number to be found anywhere on my horn.