Help With J.W. Pepper Eb Tuba

[bisontuba]

If you want any to sell the Holton 47 mthpce, let me know. Thanks.
Mark

[Donn]

The mouthpiece looks to me like trombone small shank, 10.8mm. Not much off the shelf in tuba mouthpieces with that shank - you're right, Denis Wick small shanks are much bigger. Might be worth the trouble to round up a couple other small shank trombone mouthpieces just to see how well they fit.

If trombone small shank fits, Doug Elliott's modular system might work for this. For a more economical new mouthpiece, it might be interesting to call up Dillon for the largest small shank Josef Klier trombone mouthpiece - if you can get a 1A for example, that's 28mm, which is a couple mm wider than anything else off the shelf. (Large shank would be 1AL.) My guess is it would at best be special order, but who knows.

I didn't entirely follow the repair guy analysis, but sounds like he may have been looking at your options for a new receiver?

[windshieldbug]

The earlier American Eb shank is about the same size as a modern bass trombone shank. The question is, what do you want to do with the horn? There are several period Eb tuba mouthpieces on eBay right now if you are looking for something that would be more HISTORICALLY correct. If you want to perform in a more current way, you choices would be to use a specially made mouthpiece, replace the mouthpipe, the receiver or any combination of the three.

Whatever you do, the horn will still be a smaller bore than modern equipment.

[Donn]

The earlier American Eb shank is about the same size as a modern bass trombone shank.

About .490 inches at the end of the shank, right? at least 1/16 inch wider than that Holton mouthpiece that's apparently already too big.

SMALL EUROPEAN: Having a diameter of .490" at small end of shank, this size is offered by Dennis Wick in the sizes 1 through 5. Just make sure you order the one without the "L" in the model number. This size is most commonly used on old Besson tubas and old American Eb tubas.

I'm pretty sure someone else came through here in the last year with a very similar smaller-than-small receiver issue, but haven't been able to search it up. A vintage Eb tuba mouthpiece is almost guaranteed to be too big.

[MikeW]

I have seen other posts on similar topics. Apparently European tubas, pre 1910 or so, were often built with a Medium Euph receiver, so the Euph players in town bands could use the same mouthpiece when doubling on tuba, which was common practice at that time. Some of these instruments made it to the US as stencils, and the "Austria" stamp suggests yours may be one of these.

The most likely shank size is "Medium Euph", which has an outside diameter at the tip of .470in.

I think Doug Elliot's 3 piece system includes a shank this size.

Edit: The "Medium Euph" is the smallest I have heard of to date, on a tuba. If yours needs .430in or smaller, there must be a "Small Euph" or trombone size that no-one has mentioned before. Google shows up one or two Holton 47 mouthpieces on E-bay (not necessarily current listings), and calls them Baritone or Euph mouthpieces.

Edit: You seem to need a mouthpiece that goes in deeper than your Holton 47, which has a tip diameter measured at .430in. According to the Bach mouthpiece manual, the Small Tenor Trombone shank has a tip diameter of .422, which would go in deeper, so it may be what you need. If you could borrow a Small Tenor Trombone mouthpiece and confirm the fit, you would at least know where to start looking for a tuba piece, but it looks as if you're going to need a bespoke piece, unless Doug Elliot can help with his custom range.

[ghmerrill]

This may seem a silly question, but are you really sure about the size of the receiver? When I got my 1924 Buescher it took me at least four separate cleanings (with soap/solvents/brush) to clean the accumulated gunk out of the receiver. It was just built up crap. Cleaning it changed the size of the shank it took.

[imperialbari]

One person in the know could very well be Bob Tucci. He has a small stem variant at least of the PT-50. He will tell if it is small enough. The link for his store:

http://www.hornboerse.de/en/

[opus37]

I have a similar vintage Pepper import Eb Helicon. The mouthpiece that came with mine is very small in shank and cup/rim size. The insertion end of the mouthpiece is 12.5 mm dia. It goes into the receiver about 19mm. At the insertion mark, it is 13.5 mm dia. The inside rim diameter is 29mm and the rim itself is 7 mm. The mouthpiece is in good shape, insertion marks and some scratches but the rim and plating are good. The inside looks like a cone or helberg shape. I can't see any marks on the outside that would indicate brand. If your interested in this mouthpiece PM me. We will be able to work something out.

[opus37]

In looking at the tuba itself, it looks a lot like my 1912 Martin.

[Donn]

FYI, mm to inches conversion is 1/25.4. 12.5 mm is 0.492 inches - as I read it, that's the classic small shank tuba size, or large shank trombone.

[cjk]

if the smaller British shank (old Besson size) mouthpieces work, then:

Jim Kelley makes two models with that shank size (including a stainless kellyberg!):
http://www.kellymouthpieces.com/kmstain ... /index.asp" target="_blank" target="_blank

Joe Sellmansberger (bloke) has an Imperial with that shank size.

Wick models without the L in them (which you already know about).

Marcinkiewicz makes some contrabass trombone mouthpieces with bass trombone shanks.

Given that bloke sells a bunch of different size and depth rims, that's where I'd start personally. I have a British shank Imperial (not for sale) which I use for playing around with old horns.

Edit: Looks like you need something smaller than that. I think I would call Doug Elliott or investigate swapping the whole leadpipe.

[imperialbari]

If made in Austria, then to American specifications.

The fat outer bows and the anti-dripping devices on the bottom caps are very unlike the older Central European designs of piston tubas that I have seen. The only older European trait that I see is the narrowness of the piston casings.

Klaus