Horn finish affecting resale value?

[ouch]

Does the horn's finish really matter that much with a horn's resale value? What I mean by this is if I raw my lacquer horn, would I get less out of it because it's raw? I can get some people having an opinion, but is it a death sentence to do so is the real question.

Just bringing this up because I see most people selling horns to pay bills and whatnot, so if i'm ever in that same pinch I want to be able to get my money's worth out of my horn to pay off whatever has me troubled enough to sell a tuba. Plus this was the only major concern with rawing my 983 that came to mind.

[insignia100]

Ultimately it will depend on the buyer, but I'd say that a change in finish can absolutely affect value, just like anything else (such as a car, guitar, etc). With instruments it seems that to maintain value you should keep it as original as possible.

[thevillagetuba]

For 'players', the finish won't matter as much as if the instrument is a good match for their playing.

I agree. This is especially true if you have made a modification that improves the horn. If the horn is well-maintained and the only thing that has changed is the finish (which was because you felt the finish was hindering the horn's performance and not because you chipped the lacquer or something), then you don't really have to worry about it. Now, with that being said, people are more quickly able to convince themselves to buy an unaltered horn than one with modifications because there is no guarantee that those modifications will work for them. And, shiny tubas are often more visually appealing than their raw brass counterparts, though I think they latter often has the ability to sound better.

As usual, my two cents, though it's probably worth more like one (or probably more like my one Japanese Yen, which is currently worth .8 cents )

[Guest User]

I don't know how these finishes affect resale, but I know some guys have perfectly good horns stripped and I cannot see why. I guess I am not sensitive enough to hear or feel a difference that makes such destruction worth it to me. For me the resale value would not be affected so much as the ability to sell it at all.

I hate those "raw" brass tubas. The few times I have tooted on one all I could remember afterwards was that I hate having stinking, green hands. This is such a big deal for me that I would never consider purchasing a "raw" brass instrument. I really love the look of silver but hate stinky, black hands. Same deal. (I owned a silver Mack 200 a couple years ago and sold it for the lacquered VMI baby I have now.)

Give me a beautiful, lacquered tuba any day.

[Donn]

Going out on a limb here ...

for bedroom players, the most important thing is that finish is a good match for their playing.

for someone who plays in public, the appearance of your tuba is part of your act, like your clothing, haircut etc., not a mystical resonance thing that no one in the audience could possibly hear in a million years. That doesn't mean it has to be shiny -- for me, a shiny tuba would be really undesirable.

[Guest User]

Our local orchestra guy uses a "raw" brass tuba sometimes. I think when he uses it that it makes him look like a homeless guy, personally.

[Wes Krygsman]

I was also wondering this. How much do cosmetics really matter? Especially with a sousaphone that will get a little beat up and weather worn anyway? How about with a concert tuba?

My Mirafone that's for sale looks pretty rough, but I hesitate to scotch brite, buff it, and then polish it for fear that the shiny raw brass will somehow ruin the value or people's perceptions of it. I think seeing it's age is part of the appeal, especially since it plays so well.

[Donn]

My feeling is yes, a better finish would help on that Miraphone. Once in a while we see a photo here of an old tuba with a really gorgeous natural oxidation finish, but that isn't one of those, it's more on the scabby side. Someone who really appreciates what's going on there will see that this is only superficial and it's probably a great instrument, but that person probably already has a good tuba.

The problem is, or would be if I did it myself, anyway, I'd probably leave the job half done and not strip off the bit of lacquer that's left, and the result wouldn't be all that slick. I think I'd know better than to scratch up the surface and make an even worse mess, but that's a possibility too.

[swillafew]

You can look at new inventory to see how important it is. Any new raw brass horns in showrooms? How many horns are sold in more than one finish, and and how often is raw listed as one of the choices? The raw horn owner has fully used the finish the horn once had, and the instrument is still in use. That is another way to measure value.

[bort]

As with people, I think tubas look best when little made to artificially make them look older or younger than their actual age.

I generally have felt more comfortable with "low expectation" (i.e., ugly) tubas than with "high expectation" (i.e., pretty) tubas. The Neptune that I briefly owned was a very flashy and showy tuba, and in that way it was a poor fit for me. My old Miraphone 188 and Rudy Meinl were both about 30 years old and were in great shape but showed their age well and seemed like a better fit for me.

Of course, now I'm in the "giant shiny silver tuba" club, so I've got to get used to that now... at least I can pretend to be a professional now. Which professionals use lacquer CC's, anyway?

[Donn]

You can look at new inventory to see how important it is. Any new raw brass horns in showrooms? How many horns are sold in more than one finish, and and how often is raw listed as one of the choices? The raw horn owner has fully used the finish the horn once had, and the instrument is still in use. That is another way to measure value.

Gronitz has offered raw finish, am I right? There are some practical reasons not to, though, I would think. Like, if you think about how that would work in a showroom - can you even breath on raw brass without affecting the finish? Lacquer or silver are stable finishes that make sense from the factory. Raw makes sense as a special order, but not inventory, because it isn't stable.

Raw can look really good, too, but I don't know how they maintain that finish on a tuba and play out with it too.

[bort]

To me, polished raw brass isn't a bad thing (since it's a temporary cleaning). Grinding, buffing, smoothing -- removing metal -- is the bad thing, if it's not done carefully.

[chronolith]

Part of the price factor may derive from it's original value as well. New silver horns always cost more than lacquer horns, which cost more than raw horns... factor it into the used price in an overly-simplistic flat rate percentage.

I assume also that plating in any form (be it nickel or otherwise) does actually offer some protection for the horn against rot, etc. And personally I like the fact that my right wrist no longer turns blue. That is worth something to me.

And despite what people say, it does matter what the horn looks like. We spend at least a little energy appreciating the aesthetics of a pretty horn, even though others may not give a toss (even if we think they do). I suppose there are some few of us who find raw horns to be better looking than plated (vintage?), but do we really think it is a significant majority? I am quickly hurtling back towards the car analogy here...

This is well in the past, but I did have at least one repair professional tell me that in repairing a silver horn, it is much easier to hide the mark than it is on a lacquer horn or a raw horn. Happy to be disabused of this if it is not true.

Besides what would happen to all of the "reflected in my bell" tuba selfies if suddenly everybody went raw? Can we afford to lose this valuable addition to our culture?

[bort]

I have once heard raw brass tubas referred to "more polite" on-stage than shiny tubas.

[Donn]

I like faux wood grain, in an orchestral context.

[Pat S]

If the finish hasn't been looked after perhaps other aspects of horn maintenance have been short-changed as well. A horn that has been maintained dent/scratch/scuff-free may well have been babied, and that would resonate well with me.

[ouch]

Things escalated quickly, maybe I should check back on my posts more often. Or just ask Grandmaster Bloke, he seems to defeat more trolls than I