tuba choice in quintets

[Z-Tuba Dude]

Anyone use two CC's??? I've contemplated 4/4 or 5/5 CC and a YCB 621.....

The Yamaha is plenty of tuba for a quintet, by itself.

[MikeMason]

My favorite was a sweet "time capsule" conn 2j.Lee Stofer did some work on it and it was perfect . Stupidly sold to a college kid who trashed it.

[michael_glenn]

I don't have too much experience with quintet, but my teacher will go between a PT-6 and a PT-15 depending on whether the part lays better on CC or F. They sounded great on everything regardless of whether he was playing the large CC, or F. I think it doesn't matter too much what you have. You just take what you have, and make it work the best you can.

The CSO brass quintet recordings I've listened to have sounded great with the large York. But also the Canadian brass recordings also sound good with the small CC, or other groups that use an F or Eb. They all have their advantages and disadvantages.

Play the thing and have a good time.

[MackBrass]

I have used a 2165, cerveny 601 cc, miraphones, Hirschbrunner 4/4 cc, B&S f, Alex F, Alex 163 CC, and who know what else. The thing i have found is that the stronger the group the bigger the contrast in volume and sound. If you cant get the sound from an f then use a CC or BBb 4/4. Ideally 1 tuba, a 4/4 CC or BBb will do the job for about 98% of the quintet lit out there. When i had the pleasure to play with the Richmond Symphony quintet for a whole season, i used my Alex 163 and a miraphone 186, never even thought of ising the f tuba. The power of these guys at times required a larger tuba but also needed something that can handle the softer side as well.

I look at the quintet as a downsized version of the brass section of a symphony, you need to play something that can do it all. One thing I hate to do is to have to bring two tubas to a gig and will avoid it at all costs if possible, since i dont gig anymore i dont worry about it.

Personally i have heard quintets where tuba players have used an f or 184 sized CC BBb tubas and dont feel as they are big enough for most stuff to blend properly. F tuba for me in quintet can get a little squirrely in the low register so i avoid it for that as well. Although if i owned a yamaha large F i am sure that would be the exception.

Bottom line is it doesn't really matter as long as you can hang with the group and not stick out like a sore thumb when playing the most delicate chorals or monster passages.

[Lee Stofer]

I have played everything from a Thein bass trombone, to an F-tuba, an Eb tuba, BBb and CC tubas of various sizes in a quintet gig, and I think that which instrument you use is largely secondary to rehearsing and practicing as if your very career is at stake. Granted, the huge bass trombone was only for a couple of pieces, but any tuba that you can master will work. I have a Conn 36K fiberglass sousaphone here that plays well-enough that, if I played quintet behind a screen, I doubt that any listener would be able to tell you what kind of tuba it was. If I were called now to play a quintet gig tonight, I'd go get the Rudi 3/4 CC or the Conn 3J CC out of the showroom, as either of them would make it an easy evening.

One item that does not get discussed much is the amazing adaptability of human beings, who by much practice and eventual familiarity with an instrument can get to where they unconsciously compensate for intonational and response idiosyncracies in a given instrument. With enough practice, a really diligent player can play very well, even if the instrument has shortcomings.

[Billy M.]

If money were no object, I'd own a Besson 981 for brass quintet. As such I'll be using my Holton for smaller gigs like that, assuming the range doesn't go too low.

[eupher61]

Paul, 2 questions:
1) Who else in the quintet? Bob, Bill, Liz, and Doug? Your Eb should rock with them. I'd say the Holton over the Yamaha otherwise, but I really think your Eb will be great.

2) you going to Homecoming?

[pjv]

It's a shame I never learned Eb because I imagine it to be the perfect choice for a lot of brass quintet music; clarity of sound over all and a formidable bass register.

One thing I've noticed is that tuba players often choose a tuba for brass quintets that they love to play on.
Fair enough. They are the responsible musician and they are the one wielding the axe.

As musicians we are impressed with impeccable musicianship and as tuba players often enchanted by a big brass sound.
However when asking other musicians on their opinions about brass quintets, in particular non brass players, their comments often differ from ours concerning sound.

While acknowledging a groups musical qualities, non tubists often scratch their heads at the quintets choice of sound. Usually this has to do with the tuba sound unnaturally sticking out. Not the volume, the breadth and weight. These "other" musicians tend to prefer the bass tuba sound over the contra-bass tuba sound. A tad higher overtones, more clarity.

Not my words, theirs. In this ensemble of just five musicians, our musical function as bassist is always audible and adequate. A BBb tuba can sound great for Ewald, but can be unintentionally comical in counterpoint. A bass tuba less so?

This is a question one might want to answer regarding the OP's question.

[bigboymusic]

Actually Steve, its the trumpets with Steve Jilka and Phil Fink. These are heavy hitters and I will have to really lay it down to bury them... In the SJSO, Rico really lets the low brass section take control, esp me. For those smirking, I didn't say bury and annihilate, I said take control. With the quintet, they all like the big horn, as does our conductor. There are so many areas of the tuba world where the 'what equipment' question is usually fairly easy to figure out. A combination of what the composer wanted and what the conductor wants.... I have just always felt that small ensemble playing is so finicky when it comes to there being a right or wrong choice. At the end of the day, Bloke is obviously correct with the fact that it is a Quintet - 5 voices... In a way I think it is very cool that past that, there isn't a 'standard' to be met. I've been blessed to play in a couple wonderful quintets, but it would be VERY easy to tell which group I was playing with if I listened to recordings. Each one expected a different core sound. In my own selfishness, I am excited about this group, because they all agree on a large symphonic quintet sound in general. I will say it can be hard to find that sometimes in NW Missouri..... Glad I grew up in yuppie suburban Chi-town!!!

Overall with this thread, it has been very enjoyable to hear the responses. Now the real question... How many of you have recordings or videos we can listen to? I would love to hear some of your groups if they live on on the 'Youtube'.........

[eupho]

Small CC, Lidl 702, Conn 52J, MW 2141 EEb, Miraphone Norwegian Star or STarlight.

[T. J. Ricer]

Overall with this thread, it has been very enjoyable to hear the responses. Now the real question... How many of you have recordings or videos we can listen to? I would love to hear some of your groups if they live on on the 'Youtube'.........

All the recordings on this site are played on a five-valve version of the Yamaha 321 Eb tuba. It's a great combination of clarity and breadth of sound. They've indulged me enough that I've brought in CC, Eb, and F tubas, BBb sousaphone, cimbasso, euphonium, and bass trombone at different times, but we've always ended up with Eb tuba as our home base: http://www.emeraldbrass.com

[happyroman]

Arnold Jacobs used the big tuba with the Chicago Symphony Brass Quintet and just changed to a mouthpiece with a shallower cup. He said it increased the overtones and reduced the fundamental in the sound, and fit in quite nicely.

He apparently found a mouthpiece that worked so well, he thought he would try it in the orchestra, but Reiner kept asking for more volume. He realized that it was the lack of fundamental in the sound that kept him from being heard out front. So, he went back to his usual Helleberg, and Reiner was all smiles.

[Guest User]

I have always used my old Miraphone 184 BBb. (I have an older 186 BBb, too.)

It can get really edgy, though, so I use a deep mouthpiece and I have to practice loud long tones a lot. It sounds right to my ear, and since I cannot afford a new tuba that is probably a good thing.

[jonesbrass]

. . . and I think that which instrument you use is largely secondary to rehearsing and practicing as if your very career is at stake.
. . . One item that does not get discussed much is the amazing adaptability of human beings, who by much practice and eventual familiarity with an instrument can get to where they unconsciously compensate for intonational and response idiosyncracies in a given instrument. With enough practice, a really diligent player can play very well, even if the instrument has shortcomings.

Well said. 100% agree.