Less Expensive and Good Tubas / Repair Existing?

ntruhan · Post by **ntruhan** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:48 pm

All,
Sorry for such a long post. I currently have a Yamaha YYB-321 BBb Tuba 4/4 4 Piston Valves. It was spray painted before I got it in a Mat gold finish which covered the identification markers (There's some overspray on the exposed silver plates). I picked it up inexpensively on eBay about 12 years ago for about $500. I had only played it about once a year at our local TubaChristmas as I am on the road for work as an IT Consultant and don't have the opportunity to join a community band.

Recently though, the church my wife is a pastoral intern at has a Brass Quintet that they asked me to join and I have, but I can't seem to get a consistent Range or intonation out of it, so time for a slight upgrade.

Of course I looked a Miraphone, Yamaha and Meihl, but they are WAY too expensive for what I am going to do with it and I know there are other manufacturers out there like Allora or Wessex Tuba's that seem to be good quality, but a lot less expensive that I could justify to both me and the wife.

I have played a 3/4 Tuba before, but it felt a little small, so I would prefer a 4/4 like I have now, but would like to go with a Rotary Valve instead of the Piston valves. I know some people also say to stay away from used Tubas as the values may not cooperate as well as with a new Tuba, but I am not totally against the idea if it is in good condition and the price is right.

Has anyone dealt with the Allora or Wessex tubas and have any opinion on them? The hardest part I feel is going to try one out. I am in the Mid-Ohio area and looked around the local music shops and there doesn't seem to be any real stock, it is all order and I would hate to order something that doesn't seem right.

any suggestions, insight, etc.. would be greatly appreciated. Again sorry for the long post.

Radar · Post by **Radar** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 5:28 pm

With one exception I've always bought used when buying horns. I've had good luck, and some I've even bought sight unseen off E-bay. A used horn will hold it's value as long as the condition remains good, and you can afford a better quality instrument buying used than you could buying new. Only problem with used is you may have to wait for what you're looking for to become available, and you may not find what you want locally. I don't know anything about the cheaper brands coming out of China, but if you can buy a used King, Miraphone, Yamaha, or other well respected manufacturer's horn I personally would do that first over one of the Chinese stencils.

Donn · Post by **Donn** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:59 pm

If you could manage to post a picture of this unknown tuba ... there are a lot of old tubas out there, but you might have something fairly familiar, and there are some highly knowledgeable folks here. It crossed my mind while reading your writeup that the problem might not be your tuba. Or maybe it is, but all you need is to get the valves lined up properly or something, which could be equally true of whatever you get next.

ntruhan · Post by **ntruhan** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 7:49 pm

I'll get pictures up in the morning. Tuba is sitting in my wife's office at the Church right now.
Thank you all for your replies so far.

edsel585960 · Post by **edsel585960** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:15 pm

Olds 99 or Bach 869 are good 7/8 sized horns and have a good sound for small group work or in a larger band as well. They make alot of sound for their size and are easy to handle. There is a Bach 869 on tube net now I would buy if I needed one. Great horns for the money. They are piston valve horns though.

mshores · Post by **mshores** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:35 pm

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=68066" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=68038" target="_blank" target="_blank

bort · Post by **bort** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:04 pm

What's your budget?

ntruhan · Post by **ntruhan** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:27 pm

For a budget, what I would like to spend and what I have agreed to spend with the wife are two different things...
Depending on the horn, I could go upwards of around 2000 on it, but that is stretching it a little.

Also as for the existing one I have, I swore I couldn't find anything on it besides some etching someone put in there with their names Mike + Denise which was there on the bell when I got it; BUT she swears it is a Yamaha. Honestly after I got it, hadn't payed a lot of attention to that until recently since I only played about once a year. I just had to solder the spit value back on as it fell off and I had a small plug taped there as a temporary measure since it I could pull out the pipe to empty

. Valves aren't really tight (keep them oiled before use), but I just can't get the range on it. And perhaps it is the mouthpiece I am using in combination with it as the mouthpiece was a high-school graduation gift many years ago... Will post details as I find them tomorrow.

Heavy_Metal · Post by **Heavy_Metal** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:39 pm

Maybe before you buy another tuba, you should try some different mouthpieces. Most of our faces have changed a bit since high school, so your current mouthpiece may no longer be a good fit.

You say "Mid-Ohio", I assume you mean the greater Columbus area. It would be a schlep, but the closest tuba guy I know of that might have some different mouthpieces (as well as different tubas for sale and a very good repair facility) is Dan "TubaTinker" Schulz, of Newburgh, IN (near Evansville)- his shop is called "The Village Tinker". Might be worth the trip to bring your present horn for him to look at and try different MPs on.

If anyone knows of someplace closer that would fit the bill, now's the time to speak up...........

bort · Post by **bort** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:43 pm

Sounds like you want something like the one at the top of the list here (Gerhard Schneider):

http://thevillagetinker.com/horns_for_sale.htm" target="_blank

There are lots of these old B&S-made tubas with different names engraved on them. You can sometimes get them pretty cheap (under $2,000) and as long as they are in good physical condition, they play VERY well.

Dan's tuba here is at $2,500, but has the advantage of being freshly worked on and picked over. I'd say to give Dan Schultz a call and talk about this tuba.

ntruhan · Post by **ntruhan** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 11:04 pm

Heavy_Metal wrote:Maybe before you buy another tuba, you should try some different mouthpieces. Most of our faces have changed a bit since high school, so your current mouthpiece may no longer be a good fit.

You say "Mid-Ohio", I assume you mean the greater Columbus area. It would be a schlep, but the closest tuba guy I know of that might have some different mouthpieces (as well as different tubas for sale and a very good repair facility) is Dan "TubaTinker" Schulz, of Newburgh, IN (near Evansville)- his shop is called "The Village Tinker". Might be worth the trip to bring your present horn for him to look at and try different MPs on.

If anyone knows of someplace closer that would fit the bill, now's the time to speak up...........

Yes, I am in Dublin, OH, just north-west of Columbus. Newburgh is a BIT of a drive, about 5 hrs.

.

Donn · Post by **Donn** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 11:33 pm

ntruhan wrote:Honestly after I got it, hadn't payed a lot of attention to that until recently since I only played about once a year.

It's pretty hard to find a tuba that will sound good once a year. I suppose you've been getting in some practice now that you have this quintet thing on the table, but figure on it taking a few weeks for the progress to really show up. That's if you don't have any serious technique problem. I've been there - could have practiced for years and not come close to being ready for that quintet repertoire, having got somewhat on the wrong track; if that could be you, and if you need to make this quintet thing work, you may need to find a good teacher.

ntruhan · Post by **ntruhan** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 11:57 pm

Donn wrote:
ntruhan wrote:Honestly after I got it, hadn't payed a lot of attention to that until recently since I only played about once a year.
It's pretty hard to find a tuba that will sound good once a year. I suppose you've been getting in some practice now that you have this quintet thing on the table, but figure on it taking a few weeks for the progress to really show up. That's if you don't have any serious technique problem. I've been there - could have practiced for years and not come close to being ready for that quintet repertoire, having got somewhat on the wrong track; if that could be you, and if you need to make this quintet thing work, you may need to find a good teacher.

Yes, I have been practicing a couple times a week now. Sad part, I played everyday for 6 years (through high-school and 2 years in college), sometimes in multiple bands at once, and I was pretty good then, not to toot my own horn, but now... 17 years later

... My range isn't anywhere NEAR what I remember it used to be, lucky to maintain a high F 3rd octave, not 4th) and strain to hit that high G, and can only go as low as a low G, G2 not pedal G1. (Hopefully I got the octave notations right). and as much as I want to blame the instrument and mouthpiece alone, it may be me, but want to try another one out to make sure it isn't a combination of me and the instrument. On the horn I used in school which was a brand-new Conn if I remember, I was able to transpose BASS Guitar parts on the fly that were around F3 and above and play without an issue... If it isn't the instrument then I have to figure out why I can't hit that anymore and have to transpose standard Tuba parts lower now.

bort · Post by **bort** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:15 am

Meh, upgrade AND practice. You won't know which was the cause for improvement, but it's more fun that way.

Not to mention, a new tuba is a nice (yet temporary) encouragement for practicing.

edsel585960 · Post by **edsel585960** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 1:08 am

http://www.ebay.com/itm/161826540639?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT" target="_blank Olds 99

Donn · Post by **Donn** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 1:53 am

Well no, generally speaking it isn't a crime to buy a tuba, and with $2K to blow it isn't out of the realm of possibility that it could be a better sounding and more fun to play tuba. But the notes that were hard on the old tuba, will still be hard. My guess is that one more practice session per week would do more to solve that. I always have thought that 3 sessions a week is a kind of breakthrough threshold. For all kinds of things - sports, musical instruments, etc. - two will keep you from sliding back, three and you move forward. Old skills will come back, just takes a little time - don't let frustration make you struggle too hard with it, and I think in a few more weeks you'll be playing those notes as easily as whistling. I have no credentials to be advising anyone, by the way.

bort · Post by **bort** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 9:37 am

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=68098" target="_blank

hbcrandy · Post by **hbcrandy** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:14 am

If you did not play for 17 years, I can say with some authority that you have lost a lot of embouchure muscle tone and strength that is required to play a brass instrument. Most players that I know who are in good playing shape have no range problems on almost any tuba they play, even it if is an unfamiliar one they are test-playing. Granted, some instruments will slightly help or hinder you a bit, but not enough to trim anywhere from a perfect fifth or an octave off of your range. As a brass player, you are the instrument. The thing in your hands is simply an amplifier so that your lip buzzes can be heard by the audience.

If you contact me via private message, I can send you some exercises that I have my Maryland Conservatory students do for range and endurance building. One is a mouthpiece buzzing exercise that you can do when you are traveling.

ntruhan · Post by **ntruhan** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 11:59 am

ntruhan wrote:I'll get pictures up in the morning. Tuba is sitting in my wife's office at the Church right now.
Thank you all for your replies so far.

After some investigation on the horn, it is a Yamaha YBB-321. i found very small markings on the 2nd Valve with the identifier. At first I thought it was 821 but couldn't find anything, but the 8 was an actually 3 when you got real close and zoomed in on it. Also a serial number 006799 on it as well.

I couldn't upload the photos as they were too large, so I linked them through my GDrive:
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id= ... sp=sharing

ntruhan · Post by **ntruhan** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:07 pm

Updated first post w/Tuba info and topic. Thank you everyone for your suggestions so far.
I went out to Buckeye Brass which had a good selection of Used Tubas and new BMB Tubas, although they were all Piston valve like mine currently is and no rotary valves. I tried a couple and realized it was both me AND the horn, as some of those played nice and smooth with a slightly better range, and I realized that with mine I was backing off a little as when you pushed air through it, it starts to rattle since a couple of the connection points are gone to stabilize it, so may be a good chunk of my issue as well, not enough volume of air.

I am going to take my existing one apart, deep clean it, grease and oil it and for now add a few zip ties to the spots where it should be soldered to see if that helps the rattle and performance. If not, will be looking again.

Thanks,
Nathan

TubeNet

Less Expensive and Good Tubas / Repair Existing?

Less Expensive and Good Tubas / Repair Existing?

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Re: Less Expensive / Good Tuba's?

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