I was hoping for a few opinions on this one.
I'm currently thinking about transferring to UCLA for next fall. The school has many things to offer, the main benefit being Tommy Johnson. Currenytly I'm attending UC Santa Barbara, where I get loads of personal attention from faculty and get to play in every ensemble.
Many people I've talked to seem to have varied opinions, with about half of the people saying I should make the switch to a bigger university, and that the exposure to better musicians will help me a great deal. The other half believe that where you do your undergraduate coursework doesn't matter all that much, and the personal attention is more valuable in the long run.
Any thoughts that might help me out here? Thanks.
College
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Ames0325
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Make a list of all the things you want in a school. Then mark down how each school fills those needs. VIsit UCLA. Get a lesson with Tommy. Talk to current UCLA students. Then based on the information you gather compared to your list of requirements for a school make the best decision for you. YOu may also want to make a list of the pros and cons of each school and compare those lists as well. Other than that choosing a school is a lot like choosing a mouthpiece most of them will get the job done some may be more comfortable or do a better job than others but if you do your part in studying and practicing etc. The difference will be negligable to most people.
Amy
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tubeast
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Those lists are a good idea to help you make that decision.
The thing you want to avoid: try not to evaluate all aspects at the same level of significance. (like: number of bars in town vs. personal impression of instructor)
When you make your list, assign a "significance factor" to all topics. If you have , like, ten of those topics that you consider relevant (Example: accommodation, distance from home, number of ensembles you´re likely to enroll, girlfriend already studying there...) mark the most important with , say, 5 and go down to the least important being a "one".
Then rank each option to what extent each fulfills your needs.
Multiply those values with the respective factor to make sure it has the right influence on the final result.
Add the total scores AFTER applying those factors of significance and you got your winner.
One last thing: at bigger schools, you´ll encounter MORE, not necessarily BETTER musicians among the students.
I haven´t studied music, but the decision where to study mechanical engineering involves a similar process.
This is what we do to choose from different technical solutions solving the same problems, BTW.
The thing you want to avoid: try not to evaluate all aspects at the same level of significance. (like: number of bars in town vs. personal impression of instructor)
When you make your list, assign a "significance factor" to all topics. If you have , like, ten of those topics that you consider relevant (Example: accommodation, distance from home, number of ensembles you´re likely to enroll, girlfriend already studying there...) mark the most important with , say, 5 and go down to the least important being a "one".
Then rank each option to what extent each fulfills your needs.
Multiply those values with the respective factor to make sure it has the right influence on the final result.
Add the total scores AFTER applying those factors of significance and you got your winner.
One last thing: at bigger schools, you´ll encounter MORE, not necessarily BETTER musicians among the students.
I haven´t studied music, but the decision where to study mechanical engineering involves a similar process.
This is what we do to choose from different technical solutions solving the same problems, BTW.
Hans
Melton 46 S
1903 or earlier GLIER Helicon, customized Hermuth MP
2009 WILLSON 6400 RZ5, customized GEWA 52 + Wessex "Chief"
MW HoJo 2011 FA, Wessex "Chief"
Melton 46 S
1903 or earlier GLIER Helicon, customized Hermuth MP
2009 WILLSON 6400 RZ5, customized GEWA 52 + Wessex "Chief"
MW HoJo 2011 FA, Wessex "Chief"
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Dylan King
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I attended UCLA from 1992 through 1997. Tommy Johnson is the best tuba teacher alive today. Just look at his students and where they are currently. Guys like Jim Self, Gene Pokorny, Norm Pearson, Alan Baer. The list goes on and on. He is also a realist and will give you an honest evaluation every time.
UCLA has fantastic facilities for tubists. There are perhaps fifty practice rooms with decent, in-tune pianos. While I was there I was given my own personal lockout studio, because my Yorkbrunner was too large to fit in the tuba lockers. Jon Robertson is a real good guy, perhaps not the greatest conductor, but he is easy to get along with and he chooses difficult pieces for the orchestra that usually have good tuba parts. Tom Lee is an alcoholic and a bit of a phony, but his wind ensemble always sounds great.
If you are into jazz as well, UCLA would be a good choice these days. Kenny Burrell is head of the program and gets some of the best artists in the world to teach and coach the ensembles.
Now. I did not graduate from UCLA. I dropped out because I was tired of all the GE required courses where I had to spit out what the professors wanted to hear. This included music theory, where the professors are quite bitter because they are professors, not professionals. They work you way too hard at things that you will forget as soon as you take the final. Of course, this probably isn't any different than any other university.
I am of the opinion that the university system is one of the main problems in the ethical downslide of America. Leftist thought prevails at UCLA and just about every other college and university in the country. They might as well have written on their applications "those with an open mind, or those who believe in God need not apply."
You will get some great musical training at UCLA and a whole lot of meaningless crap from all your other classes. I would tell someone who is intent on being a musician ablove all else to seriously consider not going to college. Spend that money on good equipment and some good teachers, and spend the time learning music and life the way YOU want to. Not the way these university drones do by washing out the brain. I never got a university paper to prove that I have a brain, and I've been doing mighty fine in my career. In music, nobody cares if you played the game, they just care how you play that horn. Good luck in your search.
-DK
UCLA has fantastic facilities for tubists. There are perhaps fifty practice rooms with decent, in-tune pianos. While I was there I was given my own personal lockout studio, because my Yorkbrunner was too large to fit in the tuba lockers. Jon Robertson is a real good guy, perhaps not the greatest conductor, but he is easy to get along with and he chooses difficult pieces for the orchestra that usually have good tuba parts. Tom Lee is an alcoholic and a bit of a phony, but his wind ensemble always sounds great.
If you are into jazz as well, UCLA would be a good choice these days. Kenny Burrell is head of the program and gets some of the best artists in the world to teach and coach the ensembles.
Now. I did not graduate from UCLA. I dropped out because I was tired of all the GE required courses where I had to spit out what the professors wanted to hear. This included music theory, where the professors are quite bitter because they are professors, not professionals. They work you way too hard at things that you will forget as soon as you take the final. Of course, this probably isn't any different than any other university.
I am of the opinion that the university system is one of the main problems in the ethical downslide of America. Leftist thought prevails at UCLA and just about every other college and university in the country. They might as well have written on their applications "those with an open mind, or those who believe in God need not apply."
You will get some great musical training at UCLA and a whole lot of meaningless crap from all your other classes. I would tell someone who is intent on being a musician ablove all else to seriously consider not going to college. Spend that money on good equipment and some good teachers, and spend the time learning music and life the way YOU want to. Not the way these university drones do by washing out the brain. I never got a university paper to prove that I have a brain, and I've been doing mighty fine in my career. In music, nobody cares if you played the game, they just care how you play that horn. Good luck in your search.
-DK
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chevy68chv
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WoodSheddin
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Dylan King
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Cool. My mom went to Harvard...bloke wrote:' might consider Harvard, as that's where (obviously) the really smart kids go to school - at least according to Ms. Dong:
http://www.timewarner.com/corp/newsroom ... 76,00.html
-DK
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chevy68chv
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Dylan King
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Matt G
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New Slogan:
"Harvard - The most academically inbred school in America."
While I might have not liked a few of my professors, I would never state in an open, public forum that I thought one was an alcoholic. The term phony people can deal with, but stating that a person is alcoholic can be deemed libel.
As far as "spitting out what people want to hear", welcome to life. If nothing else, that is good prep for about 85% of the rest of your professional career, regardless of industry.
College is only worth what you put into it. I have gotten a good bit more out of my MBA curriculum than many of my classmates. Colleges are just an extension of our failing education system, they only can do so much work with what the public schools give them.
I had a professor last night mention this name:
Adam Smith
I think I was one of 2 or 3 people who immediately thought:
Wealth of Nations
I think the other 30 folks thought:
(..........)
Yes, leftist thought prevails at most universities. Especially in liberal arts and performing arts programs. Who else will hire these folks?
All in all, the four or so years in undergrad are not that much in terms of life influence. I have not seen any folks go into college being right-wing or even centrists and coming out screaming-mad, hug-all-the-trees, save-all-the-chickens liberals.
A four year degree is this:
I went to college. I put up with the BS. I did what was required for success.
Any post-bac degree is this:
I like _____ subject. I put up with the BS. I did what was required for success.
Anywho, if you want to go study with Tommy Johnson, do so. If UCLA allows you to do that best, then that is the best choice. Go there, jump through the hoops, graduate, and move on, preferably forward.
"Harvard - The most academically inbred school in America."
While I might have not liked a few of my professors, I would never state in an open, public forum that I thought one was an alcoholic. The term phony people can deal with, but stating that a person is alcoholic can be deemed libel.
As far as "spitting out what people want to hear", welcome to life. If nothing else, that is good prep for about 85% of the rest of your professional career, regardless of industry.
College is only worth what you put into it. I have gotten a good bit more out of my MBA curriculum than many of my classmates. Colleges are just an extension of our failing education system, they only can do so much work with what the public schools give them.
I had a professor last night mention this name:
Adam Smith
I think I was one of 2 or 3 people who immediately thought:
Wealth of Nations
I think the other 30 folks thought:
(..........)
Yes, leftist thought prevails at most universities. Especially in liberal arts and performing arts programs. Who else will hire these folks?
All in all, the four or so years in undergrad are not that much in terms of life influence. I have not seen any folks go into college being right-wing or even centrists and coming out screaming-mad, hug-all-the-trees, save-all-the-chickens liberals.
A four year degree is this:
I went to college. I put up with the BS. I did what was required for success.
Any post-bac degree is this:
I like _____ subject. I put up with the BS. I did what was required for success.
Anywho, if you want to go study with Tommy Johnson, do so. If UCLA allows you to do that best, then that is the best choice. Go there, jump through the hoops, graduate, and move on, preferably forward.
Dillon/Walters CC
Meinl Weston 2165
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Lew
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Here's a little less biased perspective on the value of a college education:MellowSmokeMan wrote:A little more information on colleges...
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/denn ... 0211.shtml
http://www.forbes.com/2003/07/28/cx_dd_ ... match.html
Their conclusion is the same, but a little more factually based, rather than just opinion.
Yes, more of the wealthiest Americans do not have college educations than those who do. Yet on average, a college graduate will make twice what a high school graduate will over their lifetime and be unemployed for about half the total amount of time. For most people therefore a college education will provide economic value greater than the investment, especially if you are interested in engineering or science. Frankly I took practically no "liberal arts" courses while getting my degrees. I know that for the types of jobs I have held, having a degree helped me get the job over someone who didn't have the same level of education a number of times.
In terms of music, I question the value of a degree in performance, as most of them are currently formulated. The value that performers gain from college, in my opinion, is directly related to the ability of the specific person with whom they will be studying to help them identify what they need to work on and how to improve it. The particular institution only matters to the degree that their faculty have a proven track record. Tommy Johnson is obviously one of those people with such a track record.