6/4 horns?

[southtubist]

Sometimes I wish I hadn't sold my 6/4 Conn. It produced a great sound and had a pretty easy low range down to low E. It suddenly ran out of gas on that note. . . Bloke rebuilt the pistons for me a few years back, but I sold it shortly after that in order to buy an F tuba. It was actually good for me as I've played more F tuba than any other type of tuba.

Anyway, somewhere there is a video on the internet of me playing this long orchestra concert. I was switching between my MW 45k and the school owned Miraphone 190. It's pretty interesting to hear how similar the sound is out in the hall.

[bigbob]

Funny I'm no Pro but I found the BMB to be very heavy and awkward It also in my opinion had a heavy sound or I had to force a few notes.My C.O.P.D. might have had something to do with it...and of course my hatred of all things from China <s>..Of course I may be spoiled with how full and easy to play my franken horn is!!!! <S>

This sounds like a conversation I had tonight with my friend who plays organ at our church. Our old sanctuary had a wonderful pipe organ, the new sanctuary has an electronic one. I told him how much I missed hearing that pipe organ. It just had a warmth the electronic cannot match, but the old one is totally insufficient for the large new sanctuary.

The primary difference between a pipe organ and a digital organ is that the pipe organ actually MOVES air with sound throughout the room. The digital organ only 'shakes' the air into vibration. (aside - Even a too small pipe organ can be enlarged and revoiced for a larger space.)

I've not played a 6/4 piston BBb tuba better than the BMB, ever. That includes Holtons, Yorks, and Conn Grand Orchestrals.

[Ken Crawford]

Funny I'm no Pro but I found the BMB to be very heavy and awkward It also in my opinion had a heavy sound or I had to force a few notes.My C.O.P.D. might have had something to do with it...and of course my hatred of all things from China <s>.

I play a BMB 6/4 everyday and I have found that it is heavy, because it is a 6/4 tuba, but saddled in a BBC stand is very comfortable to hold. And the sound is heavy, but that's what I like from a BAT. When I want a light sound I play my BMB F tuba...I don't like buying Chinese products either to be honest. But buying Chinese tubas is really a small offense considering the small size of the tuba market. And considering I own 2 Chinese tubas, oh yeah and 50 other random Chinese made items, including my electronic Tubenet viewing devices. I'm too young to know, did folks complain about B&S when they were built by communists?

[mbell]

Interesting discussion, particularly with regard to which situations work well with a large horn.

When I first got my Cerveny Kaiser 601 I was fairly certain it would be too much for the small orchestra I play in. However, it has been working fine with that group, mainly because it blends very well with the string basses. I can provide some extra foundation during the times when the bass section is weak. I do have to be careful not to be too loud though. When it does get to be too much, it is more of big sound rather than a loud sound. I get a fair number of compliments from other members of the orchestra.

mike

[Davidus1]

Your experiment won't fill the craving.

The sound quality of a good grand orchestral tuba is just different from an Alex 163, which to me is the quintessential column of sound that I associate with German instruments.

I've told this story in the deep past, but I've been so occasional on Tubenet that probably most have forgotten it. When I started attending the San Antonio Symphony, the year was 1982 and Mike Sanders was playing an Alex 163. A couple of years later, he switched to one of the early hand-made Yorkbrunners. So, same player, same hall, same orchestra, same conductor, similar repertoire, but...

...vastly different sounds. The Alex was irrepressible, commanding, and thrilling sound, that came from "over there". I sat at the very back of the mezzanine of that hall, and in those days the San Antonio Symphony played in a forbidding 3000-seat concert hall. I could close my eyes and point to the tuba. The Yorkbrunner, on the other hand, was ever-present, intimate, and enveloping. That, without in any way being fuzzy or fluffy or woofy. The clarity was just as great as with the Alex. When I closed my eyes, the tuba sound seemed to come from everywhere.

Also, it has a liveliness to the tone color, which is what most seem to me when they use the phrase "color". It was warm and even friendly.

I don't think the Yorkbrunner was as versatile as the Alex.

I have played a Holton BB345 in a concert band for over a decade. The notion that it is too much for a medium-sized band seems to me sort-of nutty. It's not too much unless the player is too much, and too much overblown sound is bad no matter what instrument is producing it. But the presence of the sound can be so compelling that it distracts from other important stuff in the ensemble, and that's what I think people who have experience are saying, though it has never been a problem for me.

Bands are louder than orchestras, but loudness isn't the issue. A demonstration using an SPL meter would be worthless in my mind, with respect to those who think they are useful. The weighting isn't correct for measuring the whole tuba spectrum, because it's weighted to the frequencies that cause ear damage (the prevention of which is the reason those devices exist).



The usual A weighting is at -28dB at the fundamental frequency (58 Hz) of a low Bb, for example. That means a 58 Hz sine wave has to create 5000 times as loud to swing the needle to the same point as a 1000 Hz sine wave. Even when selecting the C weighting, the microphone in the meter often can't hear as well in the lower range, particularly at higher SPL. But my experience at the back of Lila Cockrell Theater in San Antonio demonstrates that the size of the sound means more than its sound pressure level--size being how much air in the hall is getting excited, not merely how excited that little bit of air is getting, or at what frequency.

Aesthetically, it's not about volume, but about control, propagation and color. Great players get that from any instrument, but the question is, with how much effort?

One final point: Large tubas cannot be lumped into a single class, or even two classes (Rotary and Piston, or whatever). Two extremes which I have experienced: Resonant and non-resonant. The resonant models are easy to play, the non-resonant models are difficult to play. The resonant models make a lot of sound (NOT loudness) for a given input, and actually can play pianissimo without losing presence. The non-resonant models seem to struggle to get under mezzo-forte. My Hirsbrunner HB-193 is as resonant as my Holton, though they have quite different qualities otherwise. I once owned a 20J that (perhaps untypically, as I heard 2xJ fans insisting) that just didn't seem to ring. I have played a King Monster (the 1291 that J.C. mentioned above) that just sings. And I've played Holtons sucked the air out of me without much effect. Good tubas are good tubas, and bad tubas are bad tubas, and examples of each are often available with the same outer shape and even brand on the bell.

Rick "who thought the BMB 6/4 tubas about as good as anything readily available and affordable these days" Denney

That's great to be able to compare the different horns, with the same player, same hall. Great example and thanks for the info!