Prevent valves from freezing

[knarfman]

Here in Minnesota, we mixed antifreeze with valve oil. Just make sure to clean the valves before and after. Also, don't breathe too much through the horn haha.

Ultrapure lamp oil fumes - with or without added antifreeze (basically: "valve oil minus added aromatics") aren't the greatest thing to inhale. It's always a matter of concentration and ventilation. I don't like either, but I'd probably rather inhale "antifreeze fumes" (as with a leaky heater core in a car) than "petroleum distillate fumes". Finally, isn't antifreeze water-based (whether pre-mixed, or the type that requires adding water), and how does that work out when mixing it with a petroleum distillate ?

Why not use vodka instead? The Russians seem to think it's a great all-purpose antifreeze, it can be used internally and externally, and it might be safer to inhale the fumes (just don't drink from the horn).

[PMeuph]

As others have said, the secret is really in keeping the horn warm rather than using any additives. I've used valve oil and had a heater nearby with much success. Make sure you clean the valves and slides and put new valve oil beforehand. If there's any water in the horn, it will freeze much quicker.

[NCSUSousa]

Automotive antifreeze is not something to play with. If you have a leaking heater core in your car, fix it and stop breathing in those fumes. I wouldn't use automotive antifreeze anywhere near my horn because of the risk of breathing those fumes. There's a reason why the manufacturers put a warning on the bottle about breathing the fumes... I'll leave it at that.

FYI - Before automotive antifreeze was developed, they just used alcohol mixed with water for the engine coolant in cars. As far as I know, that combo is still used in South America and Cuba because of cost. And yes, they use simple vodka or rum as the base alcohol for that application. It's not uncommon to see alcoholics try to siphon off of a car radiator to get drunk in those places. Occasionally immigrants who used to use that trick back home will show up in the ER (here in the US) with poisoning symptoms who didn't know that we use dangerous chemicals here.

[tbn.al]

I am somewhat surprised that you are concerned about the vales as the higher ground usually gets much colder.

[ghmerrill]

Occasionally immigrants who used to use that trick back home will show up in the ER (here in the US) with poisoning symptoms who didn't know that we use dangerous chemicals here.

Not to mention the non-immigrants who used to use car radiators (containing both glycol residue and lead solder) as stills, eh?

[Art Hovey]

Anti-freeze works. It mixes with the water that condenses in the tuba, and if diluted 50-50 it is as thin as valve oil. I don't worry about inhaling it because I don't inhale through the tuba. You can also use pure glycerine mixed with water if you are worried about toxic effects; it works almost as well.
Alcohol also works, but evaporates quickly and is also soluble in water, so it may not last as long. Rubbing alcohol is also toxic.
I would be careful about using a thicker oil. It won't freeze, but it may become much thicker when cold. Water won't dilute it, but lamp oil will.
If you use a plastic mouthpiece and keep blowing warm air through the horn when you are not playing you can usually keep from freezing up. Inhale through your nose (if possible) and exhale through your mouthpiece, and keep moving the pistons.
I never understood why some thumb rings are so big until I tried to play with thick gloves on.

[johneyt54]

I'm in a marching band in Montana. Playing in -10-degree weather has happened...

What helps is mixing Everclear and blue juice and applying it like it's going out of style. Also, never stop blowing into the horn and moving the valves. One you stop, it's all goes down the tube. However, this creates a problem as all this extra hot, moist air condenses and can freeze and create a blockage (much like a stroke). To fix this: more hydrophobic stuff!

Also, your giant sousaphone bell acts like a radiator, drawing heat off the tuba. I'd recommend using a bell cover to help slow down that process, and whatever you can put on your tuba to block the heat. An extra winter coat, a battery operated heat pad, even gaff taping some had warmers to the valves. Whatever helps.

A portable heater nearby will help tremendously if possible, although I'd caution you about the rapid and extreme temperature changes it can cause and the stress it would put on your instrument. We would go to the bathroom and use the hand dryers: they worked shockingly well.

With all of this work, your tuba may not freeze as fast as it normally would. Just remember, if you feel it going, try to get the valves to freeze in an advantageous position. Good luck, and stay warm!

P.S. As an engineer, I'm looking into ways to keep the tuba warm, and I will update everyone once I find a solution.

[Rick Denney]

Edit: Necro-thread alert!

If you are worried about the moderate toxicity of the ethylene glycol found in automotive antifreeze, use propylene glycol, which has a much lower toxicity. It is sold in gallon jugs at Walmart and similar for use in winterizing potable water systems subject to freezing. Look for "RV Antifreeze". It's dyed red to avoid confusion with automotive antifreeze, which is usually dyed green (but which may be other colors). Automotive antifreeze isn't just an antifreeze, it's also an anti-boil and a strong corrosion inhibitor, so there are a lot of additives in it. Propylene glycol doesn't have all that. And it's cheaper.

Rick "who does not play outdoors in sub-freezing weather, but not because of the tuba" Denney

[Rick Denney]

It seems to me that - rather than putting weird $h!t in the tuba...

What weird stuff are you talking about? Propylene glycol can be found in many foods. Lamp oil, not so much. Automotive antifreeze, never, but mostly because of all the weird stuff it contains in addition to ethylene glycol. Of all the chemicals one might pour down a tuba, the propylene glycol, which is approved for potable water systems, seems the least likely to cause a problem. It's also cheaper than either automotive antifreeze or lamp oil, and it's just as available.

But I personally don't care. Those warmers are nice for hands, but is the plan to duct-tape them to the valves casings? What weird stuff will you use to get the tape residue off?

Rick "do what you want; back to the shadows" Denney

[Three Valves]

NICE!!

(If they work)

It looks more convenient than the burning wick in an asbestos/steel case we used in '77!!

Just taped it to the valve cluster and

[Three Valves]

Lexan mouthpieces would have been nice in the day too.

[iiipopes]

Polyethylene glycol is used as a sweetener in Dr. Pepper.

[Tom]

Polyethylene glycol is used as a sweetener in Dr. Pepper.

Perfect! I'll just drink a lot of Dr. Pepper while playing in cold weather. I'll stay hydrated and keep my valves from freezing!

[Chasetbr]

What usually worked for me took no effort. Just as you are standing there keep blowing warm air through the horn. It keeps your mouthpiece lukewarm and your valves moving. And I have used hand warmers in the past. The only problem that arose was that I stuffed the baggie around some of the tubes and knuckles and I was so cold I forgot to remove the packet that night. The next day the packet had solidified and it just took a bit to pull out the packet while it was breaking apart and getting its insides everywhere.

[Rick Denney]

bloke "If not enough sense to stay indoors when it's that cold outside: hand or foot warmers next to moving parts that collect water vapor - K.I.S.S."

Weird to you, maybe. No weirder than petroleum distillates, for sure. But RV antifreeze is certainly not weird to me--I have four gallons of it sitting in the garage right now, and I use at least ten gallons a year. I'd actually have to take action to buy those hand-warmer thingies, whatever weird stuff they are made out of, versus filling a squirt bottle in my own garage. KISS indeed.

Rick "who has enough sense to stay indoors, but figgering that the RV antifreeze has actually been tested as antifreeze, while the handwarmer is still a theory unverified by reports of actual successful use by certain blokes, but maybe he has sense enough to warm his valves using the furnace of the build he is remaining inside of, as I do" Denney

[Arthur]

I have always found that everclear and keeping the valves moving did the trick.

[Radar]

I've played a few extreme cold weather gigs over the years and in most cases blowing warm air through the horn has been enough to keep the valves from freezing. We did do a Buffalo Bills 1/2 time once with a drum and bugle corp where they passed around valve oil mixed with alcohol.