CC, BBb, or EEb?

[ghmerrill]

Alas, not so nimble and with less effort once you get down about an octave below the staff. And not with the gravitas (or volume) of the CC or BBb horns there.

But I still prefer the Eb/EEb horns. If your 3-banger has good "ghost" tones (my Buescher does), then there's probably not much common tuba music you can't play on it.

[ghmerrill]

Where'd you find a 112 year old Conn with five valves? Did you do some work to one of the three valve models?

Yeah. I don't think this counts as an exemplar of a traditional Eb tuba . I have the feeling that was a pretty unusual instrument to start with. And a lot of the older ones seem often (from what people who own them say on this forum) to have intonation issues. Mine does. It's really not playable in polite company without the 3rd valve kicker I added.

Really nice horn, but definitely not a "typical" Eb tuba.

[Bob Kolada]

Bill, what F are you playing? Also 1291 Bb.

[barry grrr-ero]

Be like the rest of us and get a tuba in EVERY key. Don't forget adding a Bb tenor tuba and a cimbasso - got to have those. For marching gigs, you'll want a Sousie or a Helicon (or both). If you join a Mexican banda, you'll need the Sousie. But why stop there!

Get a subcontrabass trumpet; get a mechanic to make you Frankentuba in G; chase down Roger Bobo's Contrabass French Horn. It's all never ending fun.

[J.c. Sherman]

Try lots of tubas. Find what gets you through all four octaves with joy and ease and allows you to express a tone you love... and buy that. An F might, without being a rare compensating Besson, be a little limiting in flexibility through the low range and underpowered on some works... a BBb might be a bit of an uphill battle playing the higher concerti with aplomb. For me, a Besson Imperial Eb 3+1 was (and still is) my favorite solution, followed closely by the BMB 3/4 (7/8?).

Play anything... just play it well and with passion!

Pitch notation is the basis for noting the fundamental pitches of the tubas. CC is the lowest c on the piano (also sometime C1). EEb would be the fundamental pitch below the lowest A on the piano. Etc. Very clear, and the British ignored it (like we ignored "Baritone").

J.c.S.

[ghmerrill]

I'm a pretty rank (in more than one way) amateur and play Eb tuba (or EEb, or both, depending on what you like) in community bands and some smaller groups. I just LIKE the Eb horns and I seem to do better with them.

In community band, you're almost NEVER called upon to play more than an octave below the staff. The F an octave below is common, and you encounter the Eb or E sometimes (true pedal range of the Eb horn?), and maybe I've had to play the D a few times. So that's pretty much the practical bottom end.

In terms of the high end, it's pretty rare in the (Grade 4-5-ish) stuff we normally play to have to play above maybe the G or Ab at the top of the staff. My current reliable range up there is up to the Eb above the staff (I can probably squeak out an F or G, but it ain't reliable or pretty), but I'm pretty sure I've NEVER had to play above the Bb (or maybe on odd occasion the C) just above the staff.

This is on my Wessex 3+1 "EEb" 981 clone. On my little 3-valve Buescher, it's pretty much the same, but not nearly as nice in the contra-bass range since ghost tones are involved and the horn just doesn't sound as good in that range anyway.

To me, "joy and ease" is not a phrase that goes together with any kind of standard Eb tuba an octave below the staff. It's more "can be done and sounds okay" instead of "pleasant to do and sounds great and fills the hall". If you have a really large bore Eb horn with five or six valves, then maybe that's different.

Also, some joy and ease can be achieved on each end of the spectrum by choice of mouthpiece. Since I now have a very competent BBb player beside me, I'm playing mostly on my smaller TU-17 and infrequently on the Wick 2XL. The two horns sound great together and play well in tune with one another.

[J.c. Sherman]

Even though we commonly refer to them differently, technically tubas come in F, Eb, CC, BBb, GG (Bugles), EEb ( such as Ian's) - The Carl Fisher Tuba and those like it, I suppose, would be a BBBb. Has anyone ever made a true CC tuba (a whole step above the Carl Fisher etc horn)?

Edited above...

That Helmholz CC is the fundamental pitch of a regular CC tuba. CCC would be the octave below that, a step above the Fisher/Harvard BBBbs. I believe Hoffnung's Subcontrabass was a CCC.

[J.c. Sherman]

Find what gets you through all four octaves with joy and ease......

Just out of curiosity, what is the low end of the four octaves? And, is it necessary, desirable, or just kind of cool to have that kind of range? I'm not talking professional here, just an amateur community group type player. Just when I think I'm doing well with three along comes a guy who says I need four, with joy and ease yet. I'm being a little facetious here but really do want to know what the range of a very average tuba player should be.

Thanks, Steve.

As an amateur, you will see the occasional low Eb, Ds and even pedal Bb (Children's March by Grainger). Above that you'll rarely go over the staff, so three octaves plus a teensy bit is more than adequate for 99.99% of situations with a tuba. The last 1/2 octave or more is reserved to sadistic compositions for soloists or other instruments.

J.c.S.

[ghmerrill]

... even pedal Bb (Children's March by Grainger).
J.c.S.

I was going to mention Grainger as an example of extremes in tuba range. We do play Grainger on a fairly frequent basis (pretty close to one piece a year), and it's always both fun and very demanding. In general, the British composers seem to be more demanding in this way. But they are also often more fun because they'll have genuine high and low tuba parts that aren't just octave doublings of one another.

I've become convinced that Sousa didn't think Eb tubas worth a moment's thought. But more knowledgeable folks may think this wrong.

[Donn]

I've become convinced that Sousa didn't think Eb tubas worth a moment's thought.

I believe that when he was writing his earliest compositions, the Eb bass may have been the typical bottom end, with a Bb bass that's more or less a tenor tuba with the same part as 3rd trombone.

The BBb tubas caught on pretty quickly thereafter, but for Sousa they were all "basses." The part clearly accommodates an Eb bass, inasmuch as there's bound to be a divisi option that avoids low G etc., and I suppose he had Eb basses in his band, but beyond that there isn't much that suggests he cared a lot about the difference or had any desire to hear bass tubas hamming it up with special little flourishes. Guys who were interested in that kind of thing would presumably move to baritone. He wasn't writing for community bands who play for their own amusement, his band was one of the most popular performing ensembles of all time.

[roweenie]

I seem to recall reading in J.W. Schwartz's book, "Bands of America", a quote from Sousa stating that he intentionally dropped E flat basses, fairly early on in his civilian band.

I can't find my copy, so I'm just going on what might be a "fuzzy recollection".

[pineapple-power]

Sweet Jesus, I should have checked on this topic a long time ago.

Okay, first of all: Thank you to everyone who responded.

pineapple-power: Setting up discussions with high chance of debate since 2001.

With only 4 posts in 15 years...what are the odds?

I was referring to my year of birth, though I suppose I should have put 2015.

Thank you for clearing that up. I was and am kind of wary of people who say "Only this type of tuba works" because why would there be other ones?

Well, why indeed. We are teetering on the brink of enlightenment here. One more step, and you may transcend Tubenet.

*curtesy*

To the EEb / Eb debate on page 3 - I hath been cultured in the ways of extra letters. I'm sorry for using what seems to be the wrong term / a perversion of the original.

A great question gone completely off-topic. Who cares about how many letters they post... I'm pretty sure we all know we're talking about the standard BBb, CC, Eb and F tubas currently sold in the mainstream market. Let's focus on helping the OP.

I vote CC or BBb - 4/4 with a 5th valve.

Thank you sir, you win +1 internet.

I'm saving up to buy a Miraphone tuba.

I'm hoping for one that will get me through high school and college (perhaps beyond). With that in mind, which type should I buy: CC, BBb, or EEb?

Also, how big of an impact does the finish make on the sound? I'm partial to silver / nickel coated tubas, but if it affects my sound too much I won't go for it.

Thank you for reading this far, and answering should you be so kind to.

A Miraphone 186 4v BBb is, without question, one of the best do-it-all tubas around. It can do just about anything very well. It's CC counterpart is very good also. A high quality EEb can be a great do-it-all instrument - solo stuff, high stuff, low stuff, ensemble stuff.

Many tubas could qualify as a good high-school-and-beyond tuba. If you can try a variety of tubas, that's great. If I had to buy one sight unseen, a Miraphone 186 BBb or Miraphone 188 CC are the ones I'd have the most confidence in regarding tone, response, intonation, consistency, do-it-all-ability, etc. They would also have great resale value later if you ever want to trade/sell.

Regarding the business about having to buy certain tubas...

For most playing, it's not necessary to own a specific instrument. "You have to buy X tuba..." is not true, and it de-emphasizes the player and his skills. The caveat is that for some repetoire/purposes, certain tubas or styles of tubas are better suited to a job and make the job easier. You could certainly play Prokofiev or Shostakovich on F or EEb tuba, but most would agree that it is best played on a large CC or BBb - easier on the player, and the breadth and depth of sound are more appropriate. You could also play solo literature on a kaiser BBb tuba, but it might be easier in terms of response, expressiveness, etc. to use F or EEb. It's not required, but certain tools are more appropriate for certain jobs.

If I only owned one phillips screwdriver, I could pretty much use it on just about any phillips screw. If it is too big or too small for the screw, I can still turn the screw. If, however, I have the appropriately-sized screwdriver, it makes the job easier. If I can't afford multiple screwdrivers, owning only one average sized screwdriver doesn't keep me from successfully completing my project. I can do just about anything with it. If I get serious about making money as a carpenter, I can invest in a variety of job-specific tools. If you get serious about playing tuba for money, have the $$$$ to be a serious hobbyist, or have a job that is best served by owning multiple tubas, you can own several job-specific tubas. Until then, a good quality tuba in any key can serve you well.

25 years ago, I bought the second Kurath CC in the U.S. I went up to Custom intending to purchase an HB 6 - it was the biggest horn they said was in stock. The HB 6 was great, but I tried the Kurath and really liked it. I had been thinking that I had to have a BAT CC - the arms race was really taking off at that time. The best tuba at Custom (and still the best tuba I've ever played) was a raw brass Alex 164 kaiser BBb 4v for about half the cost. I had this notion that I needed a CC to correctly participate in the arms race, a thought that was absolutely foolish. I loved the Kurath, but the Alex was head and shoulders above any other tuba there. I returned to Houston and proceeded to get my butt chewed by Dave Kirk for not buying the best tuba there, and rightly so. Then he laughed and said it was a shame because he could have borrowed it for Wagner and the Russian stuff. Had I bought the Alex... well, it's too late now. Dumb me.

I've been playing F tuba exclusively all year, and it's been just fine. I still want to add a large tuba at some point for some of the things I do, but all is good.

These are probably the wisest words I've ever read on the Internet.
It seems somewhat like colleges - the right college will make the job easier, but it lies ultimately on the player and how much they work at becoming a player.

Be like the rest of us and get a tuba in EVERY key. Don't forget adding a Bb tenor tuba and a cimbasso - got to have those. For marching gigs, you'll want a Sousie or a Helicon (or both). If you join a Mexican banda, you'll need the Sousie. But why stop there!

Get a subcontrabass trumpet; get a mechanic to make you Frankentuba in G; chase down Roger Bobo's Contrabass French Horn. It's all never ending fun.

pineapple's epic tuba library: soon including non-tubas!


I'm thinking of getting a CC to start and an Eb (not EEB, lol) later on, perhaps when I enter college. From what y'all have said, CC is the most versatile, which is what I was looking for in my original post.