York Enterprise Eb Sousaphone

[iattp]

So, I just picked up my old Eb sousaphone from storage. It's taking a bath now. I was wondering if it's possible if someone might have converted it from a helicon to a sousaphone.

The helicon looks like this:

http://www.horn-u-copia.net/instruments ... icon-b.jpg" target="_blank

I don't have a picture of my sousaphone just yet, but I will as soon as it is presentable. It is silver with a brass bell. It might have been gold, but someone painted over it long ago and my friend cleaned off the paint back in high school.

Any thoughts? Was this a common practice? I ask because the bell is super angled when I play it. Also, the valves are brass. Were they maybe plated at one time and now not any more?

I'd like to get it fixed and have read some posts here about how nice and worthy these horns are to fix, but I just want to make sure.

Nick in LA

[Donn]

A picture is essential, without it you're not going to get anything but half-assed guesses. I'd get it outside, in good light though maybe not direct mid-day sunlight, and prop it up so you can stand a little ways back from it. Pictures taken from too close suffer from a perspective effect that makes them a little deceptive. If you can't zoom in to fill the frame, that's OK, there will be plenty of resolution to support some cropping. The final image could be on the order of 1000 x 1000 pixels - don't need or want a giant high resolution image here.

[windshieldbug]

Bell-up "raincatchers" have the 90° bend in the bell itself, not the body. For a time, during the transition period fron bell-up to bell-forward, some sousaphones were made with the bend separate from both the bell and the body to allow mounting of either.

As Donn said, photos are critical here. A phone photo will probably do.

[iattp]

Below are some pictures of the sousaphone. Anyone with info on these horns will make my day!

From what I gather, the horn was made around 1910, so that's cool.

I also just got the valves redone by Anderson and it's super nice.

I'll post some videos of it playing soon, but for now, other "work"

Here's the site with the pictures.

https://germanictuba.wordpress.com/my-t ... aphone-eb/" target="_blank" target="_blank

[iattp]

It's York and Son, not Sons. That's true.

Also the "Enterprise" thing might actually have been marking that was put on the bell. I can't seem to find it anymore and if I remember correctly, it said that on the bell somewhere.

I've put up some new pictures for your enjoyment. The valves are done and it doesn't leak anywhere else (according to the repair guy) but A on the bottom of the staff is super out of tune sometimes. It's also go LP markings on the tuning slides, except the main one. So, my hypothesis is that it was once a helicon, someone changed it to a sousaphone but since it needed bits, it would play in low pitch with the bits. I remember it playing in tune with two bits when I marched it in HS in 1998.

Any idea on what bits to use? King ones are too big.

[windshieldbug]

After recording 4,397 York instruments I can say confidently that:

York & Son production ended near serial # 900 (cornet #910 has "& Sons" engraved on the bell and "& Son" embossed on the second valve).

No "York & Son" nor "York & Sons" sousaphone has survived if one was ever made.

The first York sousaphone surviving is a BBb bell forward serial numbered 65307 (made in 1921) and is engraved simply "York".

The serial number 24183, if York, would place it at 1910 HOWEVER the sousaphone body looks like it was NOT modified from a helicon, rather made as it is now. If this were, say, a Pan-Am body that same serial number would place it at 1921, which is much more reasonable.

The 90° bend on the bell section easily COULD have had the flair section replaced by another instruments bell flair (even a bell-up tuba!).
This is the only "York & Son" engraving that I have seen that does not include "Grand Rapids, Michigan".

I have NEVER seen "Enterprise" included any form of the York name from "York and Son" (1987) through it's ownership by Carl Fischer "York" (1970).

This is what an Eb York sousaphone looks like:

[iattp]

Wow, thanks for the help here.

My question, though, still has to do with the horn body (minus bell) looking almost exactly like the one in the image from horn-u-copia (attached). A main difference is the second valve tuning slide. The engraving is the same, the valve cluster is the same (methinks) and the leadpipe is also in that funky way. This leads me to believe that the Eb sousaphone I have was once a helicon that someone butchered into a sousaphone. Now, am I mad at that person? A smidgen, but hey, I love this horn. Ellie Mae was the first tuba I bought, and she's sent me down this deep dark cavern of horn purchasing. Sorta deep and dark, I've got an Eb sop cornet...not so deep.

That being the case (looking like the helicon), did York and Son (no s) make helicons around 1910?

Here's an ebay set up from a while back:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/-/181455610374? ... SS:US:1123" target="_blank

[iattp]

Regarding necks and bits: I went over to Olvera Music and got a Jupiter bit. It worked just fine. I would LOVE to restore the horn to the original state, but money...

I used it tonight at Tuba Christmas in LA and it played the first tuba part nicely. Using a Denis Wick 5L is nice with that horn. The 1L I usually use is a bit too big for it. At any rate, I'll put up a video soon, hopefully.

Nick

[windshieldbug]

did York and Son (no s) make helicons around 1910?

No. In 1898 the company was renamed "York & Sons" in recognition of JW York’s second son, Frank W.
As I said, serial numbers at the time of the renaming were very near 900.