Lost and found - the original Sousaphone

[Dave Detwiler]

A great story for this blizzardy day here in the Philadelphia area . . .

J. W. Pepper built the very first Sousaphone in 1895, but shortly after that it seems to have disappeared. But in 1973, on a random visit to a flea market, this historic horn was re-discovered.

Here's the whole story: http://tubapastor.blogspot.com/2015/12/ ... -home.html

Stay safe and warm, all of you fellow-east-coasters!

[bisontuba]

Very nice!!

[imperialbari]

One interesting element in this first sousaphone is the valve block. The knuckles are straight, but they sit in the same place as in a block for a top valved tuba. This is the same approach used by British, French, and Czech makers.

Conn and most American makers use the much better airpath with less sharp exit and entrance angles, which is used by very few German makers, maybe only Böhm & Meinl.

Klaus

[Dave Detwiler]

Thanks for sharing that, Klaus. Here are some detailed photos of the first Sousaphone - let me know if you see anything else worth noting!

http://tubapastor.blogspot.com/2016/01/ ... -look.html

[vespa50sp]

Interesting, the Eb Pepper tube wrap looks like my Lyon and Healy, which is exactly the same as a Ditson and Pepper from the same era.


In the article, the picture of the Eb Pepper Raincatcher looks even closer to my Helicon (vs. the ad copy).


I seem to remember that Ditson helped finance Pepper's manufacturing. Lyon and Healy also began in Chicago selling music for Ditson.

Pepper was rumored to continue selling leftover stock after they stopped Manufacturng in 1910 (Conn sued them for flooding the market with import horns). Pepper AND SONS were supposed to be stencil horns after 1910. I wonder if my helicon is leftover Pepper old stock? Plus I kind of doubt Pepper were importing during WWI.

There is still a helicon like mine on craigslist locally. When I contacted him, he said it was a Pepper also. They must have been popular (or cheap).
https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ram/ ... 47689.html

[imperialbari]

My only further observations wouldbe about:

The need for a very sharp bend at the bell knee, so that the bend starts inside the collar leading to an assymmetrical top collar. Looks like the knee bend was first miscalculated, whereafter a few more degrees of bend were gained at the collar.

The very well vented bottom caps.

Klaus

[Dave Detwiler]

vespa50sp - it was actually Henry Distin, not Oliver Ditson, who worked with Pepper early on. Also, as far as I can tell, the only line that Pepper sold that was actually built by Pepper, rather than imported, was his "Premier - Own Make" line. The original Sousaphone has that stamped on its bell, but the later Sousaphones that Pepper sold (from 1905-1907 or so), including the Eb one you noted, were in the "American Favorite" line, which was imported. This explains the similarities you noted, as other companys imported the same instruments.

Klaus - thanks for the additional observations!

[Heavy_Metal]

There is still a helicon like mine on craigslist locally. When I contacted him, he said it was a Pepper also. They must have been popular (or cheap).

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ram/ ... 47689.html

Looks like it's all there- planning on buying it?

[vespa50sp]

vespa50sp - it was actually Henry Distin, not Oliver Ditson, who worked with Pepper early on. Also, as far as I can tell, the only line that Pepper sold that was actually built by Pepper, rather than imported, was his "Premier - Own Make" line. The original Sousaphone has that stamped on its bell, but the later Sousaphones that Pepper sold (from 1905-1907 or so), including the Eb one you noted, were in the "American Favorite" line, which was imported. This explains the similarities you noted, as other companys imported the same instruments.

Klaus - thanks for the additional observations!

Dave - any idea who built these Eb helicons and the raincatcher for Pepper?

Heavy Metal, not buying another Eb Helicon, one is enough for me : )

[Dave Detwiler]

Not yet sure who Pepper worked with in selling those horns. But it appears that the Sousaphones didn't sell all that well, as they were only available for a few years. Of course, Conn was king at that time (1905-07) when it came to Sousaphones (no pun intended!).

[vespa50sp]

Not yet sure who Pepper worked with in selling those horns. But it appears that the Sousaphones didn't sell all that well, as they were only available for a few years. Of course, Conn was king at that time (1905-07) when it came to Sousaphones (no pun intended!).

I've been staring at the Helicon and old ads off the internet for about 9 months now, and still can't figure out who built the darn thing. The Eb on craiglist is stamped "Austria" on the valve set, so I'm starting to call the helicon my "sound of music" horn.

[opus37]

Pepper worked with Courtiere in Paris early on. My Eb Helicon is just 2 number off the number on the original Sousaphone.

[Dave Detwiler]

Pepper worked with Courtiere in Paris early on. My Eb Helicon is just 2 number off the number on the original Sousaphone.

Can you post a photo of your helicon? Or can you at least note what it says on the bell? Your serial number would place your horn at 1895, and I can likely positively identify your horn from the 1894 Pepper catalogue, to which I have access. There are three different imported helicons featured in that catalogue.

[opus37]

My Helicon

[opus37]

Pepper worked with Courtiere in Paris early on. My Eb Helicon is just 2 number off the number on the original Sousaphone.

Can you post a photo of your helicon? Or can you at least note what it says on the bell? Your serial number would place your horn at 1895, and I can likely positively identify your horn from the 1894 Pepper catalogue, to which I have access. There are three different imported helicons featured in that catalogue.

If you find my horn and you can post the catalog page, that would be very much appreciated.

[Dave Detwiler]

If you find my horn and you can post the catalog page, that would be very much appreciated.

Here you go - looks like the same horn, with the exception of the final part of the neck and leadpipe. And with the serial number of 8831, you can safely say that it was built in 1895, since the original Sousaphone, at 8800, is confirmed as having been built in 1895.

I'm not sure if you can read the fine print in this photo, but it says the horn was made "by the Largest French Manufacturer," and it would have cost you $44.33 for the medium Eb bass helicon, or $52.62 for the large Eb bass helicon (I'm guessing yours is the medium?).

PM me if you would like a larger and better image of the page.

IFP Pepper import - 1894.JPG

[opus37]

I believe my horn is the large size. The bell is 14 1/2 inches in diameter.

[windshieldbug]

The last "J.W. Pepper|Maker" instrument that I've seen was a trombone with S# 9520.

[vespa50sp]

Cool conversation. If you look up "Courtiere" in Horn-U-Copia makers, up pops Pepper : )