Hagen 497 vs Siegfried

[EMC]

These two very large BBb tubas seem to have released at a very odd time seeing as how they are both pretty new I haven't played either hit everyone's told me that the Siegfried is quite possibly the best BBb they've ever played. So does the Hagen even have a place of its own? How does it stack up to the Siegfried and why would you choose one over the other? Are they so similar that it wouldn't matter?

[Ken Crawford]

They are very different tubas. Why does anyone pick one tuba over another? It's good to see miraphone providing options in this category.

[GC]

Then the next question is what are those differences? How are they different tonally, ergonomically, in response, intonation, and so on, especially since there three different sizes of Hagens. How does the biggest Hagen compare in size to the Siggy?

[Ace]

Why a tuba named Hagen? Myth sometimes describes Hagen as one-eyed, and in Wagner's Ring cycle operas, Hagen is grim, implacable, and violent --------he kills the hero, Siegfried!! This gives a new definition to the oft-heard expression, "killer tuba".

Ace

[JohnSzkutko]

I have asked this and many other tuba questions directly at Miraphone. I'll post my findings here if and when.... nope... WHEN they come from Miraphone.

[tubeast]

As to the name chosen for new BBb horns: There are only SO many male characters in The Ring cycle, let alone bass voices. One cannot be overly choosy about their personal traits. The one bass voice still unoccupied would be Hunding, so I already wonder who (since that name pool obviously isn´t reserved to MW) will come up with that one.

[Peach]

They are very different tubas. Why does anyone pick one tuba over another? It's good to see miraphone providing options in this category.

Obviously the Hagen range have 4 valves to the Siegfried's 5 although somebody did suggest a 5 valve Hagen may be up and coming. Otherwise what ARE the differrences? Siegfried has 2cm more bell flare but is the taper rate different through the body? Presumably so. Maybe.
My take would be that Hagen is directed at the European market whereas Siegfried is aimed squarely at the US market. Every chance I'm quite wrong of course

Great to have the options but it does seem a little odd to release two 6/4 rotary Bb's like this.

[Ken Crawford]

There are the differences you mentioned, plus the valve sections are wrapped differently. And if they were aiming squarely at the American market with the Siegfried, wouldn't a piston horn be the weapon of choice?

[Peach]

There are the differences you mentioned, plus the valve sections are wrapped differently. And if they were aiming squarely at the American market with the Siegfried, wouldn't a piston horn be the weapon of choice?

Fair point.
So are you saying that the tapers are indeed different and if so what is the change in playing characteristics between the two models of 6/4 horn?

[Peach]

There are the differences you mentioned, plus the valve sections are wrapped differently. And if they were aiming squarely at the American market with the Siegfried, wouldn't a piston horn be the weapon of choice?

Fair point.
So are you saying that the tapers are indeed different and if so what is the change in playing characteristics between the two models of 6/4 horn?

[Ace]

As to the name chosen for new BBb horns: There are only SO many male characters in The Ring cycle, let alone bass voices. One cannot be overly choosy about their personal traits. The one bass voice still unoccupied would be Hunding, so I already wonder who (since that name pool obviously isn´t reserved to MW) will come up with that one.

Hmmmm------"Hunding". The prototype is probably on the workbench this very moment. No doubt it will be a good tuba, a real hundinger.

Ace

[bort]

Hunding would be great for "The Ride..."

You know, Hunding Wabbit...? (kill da wabbit, kill da wabbit...)

[Jerryleejr]

Ok, I know this is a few months old but I got to play both in DC. I won't comment on sound because of the evironment of the elephant room. But I preferred the Hagen. It just seemed to take less work from me. Size wise they seemed about even. And again it's the first time I've gotten to play these caliber of tubas. I should have asked to maybe get in a room with both.

[Jerryleejr]

I was told by one of the rep's at the Miraphone booth that each was designed by a separate Miraphone design engineer. I wish I could remember their names, so I could credit them.

I'm waiting for that demo Siegfried to collect enough little dents, scratches, and other minor imperfections that I might be able to afford it...

The 98 ~IS~ ~THE~ TUBAH GODDDDDUH.



bloke "not-at-all a need, but ONLY a want...but a BIG-@$$ want"

Joe,
I tried slipping it under my coat, but apparently my coat has shrunk over the years, so didn't get it back to TN.

JJ

[Steve Marcus]

Not the name of the Miraphone design engineer who worked on the Siegfried, but this is an April 2012 report on the Model 98 from a Miraphone Artist who had much input on the model and loves the Siegfried:

As a Miraphone artist I have been collaborating with the company for a couple of years on a new F tuba, the “Bel Canto”. However the idea for a new contrabass tuba was born after Miraphone personnel found a huge old bell discarded from a previous model in their basement. I was incidentally at the factory for the final testing the “Bel Canto”, and the discovery of this huge bell inspired me and Miraphone engineers with this new idea for a contrabass tuba. Although there is already a good choice of B-flat tubas, yet I felt that there was still room for improvement, and my idea was welcomed with great interest by the Miraphone managing director Mr. Nold. Work started immediately, and after a series of prototypes I am pleased to finally present the new “Siegfried” tuba. The name has been inspired from the legendary dragon-slaying hero and main subject of the third opera from Wagner’s “Ring” cycle.

The end result is a 6/4 tuba equipped with 5 rotary valves that has the traditional characteristics of the b-flat with a warm, dark and broad sound yet with superb performance qualities such as excellent response, good intonation, centered sound and most of all ease of playability. Miraphone’s engineers and myself paid attention to every detail possible during the development and testing phase of the instrument which lasted almost three years, and we have come up with some innovative features that have improved considerably the instrument. The 4th valve slide has been placed entirely on the front side of the tuba, having just four 180° bends. This allowed for great clarity in the response associated with the 4th valve, and the handmade 4th valve tuning slide further contributed to an excellent response especially on the lower register. The choice of various brass alloys for different parts of the tuba, together with the varying thickness of the material were all a key components in the successful realization of this instrument.

I had the possibility to test an early prototype in the orchestra, where I played Bruckner’s 7th symphony, and already from the initial stages of development of the tuba I was received positive feedback from colleagues, the conductor and the public alike. From the first prototype to the final model there has been considerable improvement. With its 50cm bell, the tuba has an excellent projection, but at the same time its dark tone makes it easy for it to merge with the low brass section and produce an “organ-like” sound. I also had the possibility to test the final version of the “Siegfried” as a soloist in the world-premier of a new work written by emerging composer Yuval Avital for 5 contrabass tuba soloists, 45 tubas and live electronics. In this massive sonic event dedicated to internationally acclaimed artist Anish Kapoor I really enjoyed playing as the tuba appropriately emerged as a soloist when required without any extra effort.
Overall I can affirm that this new 6/4 contrabass tuba is very easy to control in all the dynamics despite its dimensions, with an even sound throughout the range. The “Siegfried” gives the tuba player the required sense of security making it an enjoyable experience playing such an instrument.

Eros Sabbatani

[Steve Marcus]

I was told by one of the rep's at the Miraphone booth that each was designed by a separate Miraphone design engineer. I wish I could remember their names, so I could credit them.

I believe this is the design engineer who worked on the Siegfried:

Christian Niedermaier, Design Engineer at the Miraphone house, could not resist the opportunity to personally guide the visitors from Italy through the Miraphone plant. The musicians we invited to test the Miraphone product range after which they fell in love with the newest prototype: the “Siegfried” big 6/4 Bb rotary tuba.

I'm waiting for that demo Siegfried to collect enough little dents, scratches, and other minor imperfections that I might be able to afford it...

The 98 ~IS~ ~THE~ TUBAH GODDDDDUH.



bloke "not-at-all a need, but ONLY a want...but a BIG-@$$ want"

OK, I've got second dibs, for the same reason.

[Art Hovey]

Somehow I missed the Siegfried a the Army Tuba Conference last week, but I did spend some time honking on the Hagen and really liked it. I don't feel that a BBb tuba really needs a 5th valve, but the 4th valve slide should be really long. I pointed out to the sales rep how it could easily have been made longer on the Hagen. At least it is easy to reach.

I also still like the 4/4 BMB in BBb.

I was especially pleased with the Wessex "Michigan", and learned that they did make some without the 5th valve.

[bort]

If Miraphone makes a similarly awesome CC tuba, I will lose my lunch.

[Jerryleejr]

If Miraphone makes a similarly awesome CC tuba, I will lose my lunch.

I'm already contemplating putting the Harley up for sale

JJ

[tclements]

I have a Hagen here right now and I really like it. For ME to use in the orchestra, it'd need EITHER a main slide trigger, or a 2nd valve trigger. Do they have a 5 valve version? The 2+4 B is a bit high for me.