bloke wrote:I was told by one of the rep's at the Miraphone booth that each was designed by a separate Miraphone design engineer. I wish I could remember their names, so I could credit them.
I believe this is the design engineer who worked on the Siegfried:
Christian Niedermaier, Design Engineer at the Miraphone house, could not resist the opportunity to personally guide the visitors from Italy through the Miraphone plant. The musicians we invited to test the Miraphone product range after which they fell in love with the newest prototype: the “Siegfried” big 6/4 Bb rotary tuba.
I'm waiting for that demo Siegfried to collect enough little dents, scratches, and other minor imperfections that I might be able to afford it...
The 98 ~IS~ ~THE~ TUBAH GODDDDDUH.
bloke "not-at-all a need, but ONLY a want...but a BIG-@$$ want"
Somehow I missed the Siegfried a the Army Tuba Conference last week, but I did spend some time honking on the Hagen and really liked it. I don't feel that a BBb tuba really needs a 5th valve, but the 4th valve slide should be really long. I pointed out to the sales rep how it could easily have been made longer on the Hagen. At least it is easy to reach.
I also still like the 4/4 BMB in BBb.
I was especially pleased with the Wessex "Michigan", and learned that they did make some without the 5th valve.
I have a Hagen here right now and I really like it. For ME to use in the orchestra, it'd need EITHER a main slide trigger, or a 2nd valve trigger. Do they have a 5 valve version? The 2+4 B is a bit high for me.
tclements wrote:I have a Hagen here right now and I really like it. For ME to use in the orchestra, it'd need EITHER a main slide trigger, or a 2nd valve trigger. Do they have a 5 valve version? The 2+4 B is a bit high for me.
Have you had anytime with the Siegfried for a comparison?
Well, since there's been a lot of interest...I'll share my thoughts since I've played both horns back to back. But a little background first. I tried the Siegfried that has been traveling around the country and used by Tony Kniffen in a few presentations. I played it a lot at the Ithaca conference last year in April as well as the Midwest Conference in December. That's also where I tried the Hagen.
I've been looking for a large 6/4 BBb German style instrument to add to the stable for some time. I've played the complete Ring Cycle NUMEROUS times over the last 17 years in Seattle and recorded it in 2013...all on a 6/4 York style CC tuba, most recently on one of my YamaYorks. They work great, but I've come to believe that a German BAT in BBb is the sound I've been looking for. When I tested the Siegrfried I was impressed with the sound, response, and intonation of the horn. For such a large instrument, it played fairly nimble in the mid and upper register with a very pleasant color and solid pitch. However, I wasn't in love with the low register when slurring in and out of the 4th valve combinations. There seemed to be a noticeable "bump" in the airstream and little to no resistance to lean on when using the 4th valve in any fingering combination. I realize that this may have been intended in the design of the 4th valve, but I personally don't like to feel a huge difference in response or resistance between the different valves. I was almost to point of having it sent to Seattle for testing in the orchestra when life intruded and I had to pull the plug on tuba purchases for a while.
Fast forward to December last year. At the Midwest Conference Miraphone booth they had the same Siegfried as well as all three Hagen models! I immediately picked up the Siegfried and went to work. Same impressions. Great tuba but some reservations. Then I tried the 6/4 Hagen...BINGO! To my ear it had MUCH more color and projection, much easier, quicker response. Much better intonation and most importantly to me, a more stable and predictable low register. The valve design was a more traditional style and I had no problem playing most of the Ring "licks" with only 4 valves. I'm in love with this tuba and the only thing I'd change would be the addition of a dependent 5th valve in the 4th valve slide. Yeah, I know "You don't need a 5th valve...blah blah blah". Sorry, but I do. I'd put it in the 4th valve loop so as not to possibly screw up the wonderful response of the horn as designed. Cristian of Miraphone said this shouldn't be a problem if special ordered.
So, the next time I have $16k laying in a pile...I'll probably buy one. Hope this helps...and of course...this is just my opinion. Everybody's got one.
I would totally concur with Chris' assessment of the Hagen; I've yet to play a Siegfried. If you find yourself in the SF Bay Area, Steve has let me hold one of these for awhile. If you want to give 'er a honk, c'mon over!!
Personally speaking; the main reason I would want to have a 5th valve on a BBb is in order to play smoothly, quickly and in tune in passages requiring 3rd p. C's & B's and 2nd p. F's & E's. A dependent 5th on the 4th valve wouldn't solve this unless it was a long half-step valve.
I've played both. Only one of the new one and about 8 or 9 different Siegfrieds.
For me I think they were designed with different markets in mind. The Siegfried to me seems to play more like a really nice American BAT BBb. It mixes the great sound of a real BBb with more of the playability of a CC. I find it very easy to just pick up and go coming from CC tuba land. I do find that it doesn't have a ton of "burn" in the low end. Good or bad? That's up to the player to decide.
The new Hagen seems to be designed for the German market. It looks more like a traditional German BBb (something I've noticed is important to many German players) and has the slides laid out as such. The Hagen does have a beefy low end but I didn't find it as easy to play up higher as the Siegfried. Makes sense as many German players only use the big BBb when music goes into the low end. For mid range and higher (from what I have observed living in Germany for the past four years) they will use the F tuba.
Both are outstanding tubas but they are built with different goals in mind. If you are looking to replace your BAT CC with a nice BBb the Siegfried may be the better choice. If you are looking to add a German Kaiser tuba to your line up then the Hagen might be a better choice. At the end of the day it's up to the individual to decide what is better for them.
- the most stupid-even-responding (top-to-bottom) 6.5/4 (or possibly any-quarter) tuba I've ever played. Yes, it's difficult to make the low range "rattle", but that "rattle" is often (usually) what prompts audition committees to call out from behind the piece of plywood or curtain, "THANK-YOU!"
- possibly the most stupid-in-tune tuba I've ever played...as good as King 2341...or as good as the 2155 that I have for sale...except (geez...) in a jumbo-size instrument.
- a "natural blow". I'm pretty good at quickly sensing "what an instrument needs to make it go"...but the Siegfried just isn't very "picky". Make an OK fart-sound into it and out the bell it says, "I can work with that."
- the most stupid-even-responding (top-to-bottom) 6.5/4 (or possibly any-quarter) tuba I've ever played. Yes, it's difficult to make the low range "rattle", but that "rattle" is often (usually) what prompts audition committees to call out from behind the piece of plywood or curtain, "THANK-YOU!"
- possibly the most stupid-in-tune tuba I've ever played...as good as King 2341...or as good as the 2155 that I have for sale...except (geez...) in a jumbo-size instrument.
- a "natural blow". I'm pretty good at quickly sensing "what an instrument needs to make it go"...but the Siegfried just isn't very "picky". Make an OK fart-sound into it and out the bell it says, "I can work with that."
instrument.