Older = Flatter?

[wolfhoundjesse]

Here are some off-the-wall theories.

First, for most people, older doesn't equal flatter, thanks to our developed palates and the availability of good beer.

Second, as we age, there is a point that our muscles will not have the same elasticity and function that they used to. Most of that can be put off much farther than common wisdom by adopting a strength training regimen until you die. Breathing is all muscles, too. Could it be possible that flatness is due to weakened air support?

Third, maybe your soft palate has become more and more open over time, the way you have to stretch a bit to play down into a 1+2+3 valve combination on many horns. Maybe it's passed on to the rest of your playing.

Fourth, … oh, wait, no. Most people prefer warmer weather as they age, I believe. Scratch that idea.

I'm sure someone who knows what they are talking about will stop by any minute.

[PaulMaybery]

Hi Terry. I've slowly progressed into this phenomena as well. Part of it for me is having had a quad bypass and subsequent cardio therapy. The enire breathing apparatus has undergone a certain "re-training." Not only deeper respiration, but also a greater use of larger muscles, and very little stress or tightening in the upper chest, shoulders and throat area. I've even found that keeping the facial and sinus area muscles relaxed helps smooth the sound and not hype up the pitch. Several of Arnold Jacobs' students remarked that after a year or so of study with him, they found they needed to have the tuning slide cut. I have also found that in learning to get maximum results from the BAT (I've only been at it for about 2 1/2 years) that my pitch in general has come down.
I've also noticed a pitch lowering with a certain embouchure change that I have been working on. (read Roger Lewis' post on playing in the high register) The significant point that benefited me from Roger is the use of the lower lip. To paraphrase: have it also produce the same pitch as the upper, and allow the top tissues in the lips tovibrated freely without jamming the mp down into the deeper muscle tissue. (Sorry Roger, for my clumsy recollection of what you so well described) When the lower lip vibrates as strongly as the upper, even in the very low register, there is a strong centering of the pitch. For me the tendency was for the pitch to not sharpen as I added volume to the equation. I'm thinking that in the past I was pretty much playing on the high side of the pitch. At this point, it is more in the center or lower part of the note.

Just sayin.... There are so many factors and we all approach things from a different perspective.

Paul (who would have loved to have been a "forensic musician" when it comes to the physiological aspects of playing) Maybery.

But always remember when it is time for forget.

[opus37]

Although I have not yet experienced a change in tuning based on my ability to keep a stiff upper lip, I have noticed a difference in tuning when I use a larger (deeper) mouthpiece. I give Bloke extra points for pointing this out as a common phenomenon. Reminding me to keep working on Arbans is also useful.

[Art Hovey]

Here's my hypothesis about the "older-flatter" effect:
When I was young and stupid I deliberately lipped up just a little, thinking that would make my pitch more secure. Playing in the "middle" of the note left more leeway in terms of pitch, and I mistakenly thought my pitch would be more dependable if I used the "top" instead. Many years of experience with many different tubas taught me that the top of some notes would be sharp, and some would be flat, and every tuba was different from every other one in that respect. I gradually learned that i had to control the pitch myself, rather than letting the instrument do it. And I learned that I was capable of doing so without thinking about it. So I started tuning the middle of the notes instead of the top, and that meant pushing the tuning slide in more.

[Lars Trawen]

This phenomen was very evident to me, not due to aging, but when playing very much.
20 years ago I participated in one week's band course every year playing 10-12 hours a day.
During the first days the main tuning slide was out 10 mm but in the end of the week it was increased to about 50 mm.
My only explanation to that was that my playing muscles became stronger during the week. More air, stronger lips and the pitch rose.
An analogy to the header of this post is that we are getting weaker while aging.
Probably appropiate training would make sense.
Only my thoughts,
Lars

[PaulMaybery]

My thoughts again: Art Hovey's story strikes home about when we are younger and go for the top of the note/pitch that seems more secure. I also found that when I eventually went to my first large bore Tuba (.770) from a smaller bore sousaphone (.684) that I needed to pull out at first. I think my ear was wanting to get the 'tighter' sound of the smaller bore and so climbed up to the top of the pitch. Eventually things adjusted; chops relaxed and the oral cavity opened a bit. But there are times when I still wind up jamming the sound up in 'sharpsville.' Old habits are like a virus and never really are cured, they just go dormant and sometimes re-emerge.

[Rick Denney]

This phenomen was very evident to me, not due to aging, but when playing very much.
20 years ago I participated in one week's band course every year playing 10-12 hours a day.
During the first days the main tuning slide was out 10 mm but in the end of the week it was increased to about 50 mm.
My only explanation to that was that my playing muscles became stronger during the week. More air, stronger lips and the pitch rose.
An analogy to the header of this post is that we are getting weaker while aging.
Probably appropiate training would make sense.
Only my thoughts,
Lars

Had that happened to me, I would have thought my chops were tired and I was using pressure to make up for their weakness, and thus pushing the pitch up. The tone would tell the tale.

I generally play flat on instruments, but I don't think it's because I've learned to relax. I think it's because my corners are not as firm as they need to be.

Rick "thinking that flat or sharp tendencies may not fully correlate to good or bad fundamentals" Denney