A more relaxed embouchure?

[Worth]

A long time euphonium player, I moved to the dark side of Tuba about three years ago. Through early-on lessons, consistent practice, and playing out in numerous ensembles, my skills continue to improve and most recently I've noticed that I've had to push in my main tuning slide more and more to arrive at a decent match for ensemble playing. Does this sound like an expected progression from pinching things more early-on to now having a more relaxed embouchure or was I flat all along and my ears finally developed to the point of recognition? No ensemble complaints now or in the past and MPs have been consistent at a PT-50 and a Blokepiece Symphony. Just wondering because I seem to be playing flatter these days!

[swillafew]

Sounds like a good problem to have.

[gregsundt]

I suspect there are too many unknowns for any sort of reliable online response, and would predict that the best you can hope for in this thread are repeated-from-pedagogues generalizations.

What he said. Now, here is my best shot. I played tuba from day one, and moved into the other brasses mainly during and after college.

Wes Jacobs would make me play loud. Really loud. Beyond reasonable. Or so I thought. He knew what I didn't know at the time: Tchaikovsky really did want 4 f's (effs?). Playing like that opened my tuba embouchure forever, and I have played very few tubas or euphs since that I don't play with the slide all the way in.

1. My euphonium set is more relaxed, with a slightly more forward chin position, than my trombone set. Really, it's a tuba embouchure with a smaller aperture.
2. A trombone requires a firm set, with a flatter chin, to produce the more "cylindrical" tone. It's like a trumpet embouchure with a larger aperture. I'm guessing you have moved from this to that.

Now, read bloke's quote again.

[Worth]

Gaining further understanding as I move forward, thank you all. Sounds like what I've been taught and continue to work at is having its intended effect. Intially driven by the "hot potato" analogy, my aperture is consistently more open these days with minimal conscious effort. Still have an inch left on the main slide when I used to be out almost 2. Crazy! Enjoying the transition and journey.

[Aglenntuba]

Any advice for someone experiencing this phenomenon (practicing FFF, getting an all around bigger, more open, yet flatter sound), but not having any more room to push in? I'm all out of tuning slide, and 3rd and 4th partial G and C are flat now if I'm not careful.

[Donn]

No idea, but just to be clear - those are open notes & partials for a C tuba, am I right? First glance it looked like the dangedest notes to be flat on, because I was thinking BBb tuba.

[gregsundt]

Any advice for someone experiencing this phenomenon (practicing FFF, getting an all around bigger, more open, yet flatter sound), but not having any more room to push in? I'm all out of tuning slide, and 3rd and 4th partial G and C are flat now if I'm not careful.

Too much of a good thing, perhaps? If it were me, and I couldn't adjust back to a happy medium, I would invest in a lesson or 3 with a very good teacher. A change of mouthpiece might help, but I would get in-person, professional input on that, as well.

[Michael Bush]

Any advice for someone experiencing this phenomenon (practicing FFF, getting an all around bigger, more open, yet flatter sound), but not having any more room to push in? I'm all out of tuning slide, and 3rd and 4th partial G and C are flat now if I'm not careful.

Too much of a good thing, perhaps? If it were me, and I couldn't adjust back to a happy medium, I would invest in a lesson or 3 with a very good teacher. A change of mouthpiece might help, but I would get in-person, professional input on that, as well.

Could be that just being aware it's an issue and bringing the pitch back up would be enough? (Although of course lessons with good teachers are always worth it.) But I'm thinking of one of those good teachers whose resonant sound I could listen to all day, and who who gets that sound partly by playing so relaxed that the pitch is all the time taking a noticeable dip. Worth it, in my mind.

[Roger Lewis]

My recommendation is to try The Spit Valve Drill. This drill gets the focus of the work on the air and off the embouchure. I still use this everyday and have my students use it. You wind up with a bigger sound and a lot less effort,

Go here for an explanation:

Roger

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