Best 5/4 CC tuba

[TubaZac2012]

Just curious what you think the best 5/4 CC tuba. Biggest bang for the buck. My two front running favorites are the Wiseman 900 and the MW Thor, but am open to more suggestions. Wouldn't be making a purchase until after itec where I can play literally everything possible. I already have a 4/4 CC that is wonderful, but wanted to add a 5/4 to my Arsenal for larger ensemble playing such as orchestral playing, large band playing, ect.

Any suggestions would be wonderful,
Zac

[chronolith]

Wisemann is good bang for the buck but it really ought to match the sound you want to make. I was shopping horns and boiled down to MW and Miraphone for the 5/4 options. I had one respected pro describe the Thor sound as bigger than the 1293, but uglier. I kinda liked MW's version of ugly so I went with it and no regrets.

If the Thor is in your price range, you might want to look at the Mr P. also which in my opinion is a evolutionary leap on the PT6 (which I used to play years ago). Packer is probably worth a look also given the price.

[bort]

Shouldn't have sold that Willson. I'm only half joking there, because for whatever reason, they are unpopular these days and some have sold recently at extremely low prices. A new Wisemann would have cost you more.

My opinion -- 5/4 tubas are weird and don't "go well" with other CC tubas.I think 4/4 and 6/4 makes sense, as does only 4/4 or only 5/4... but 5/4 plus another CC tuba just seems like too much overlap. I guess you could get a 3/4 CC tuba with a 5/4, but come on, get real -- there aren't any 3/4 CC tubas.

[chronolith]

My opinion -- 5/4 tubas are weird and don't "go well" with other CC tubas.

This is a little puzzling to me. Can you say more on this Bort? I played in a section of all CCs that included 3/4, 4/4, and a 5/4 without things not going well, but perhaps I was insensitive to the suffering of my section since I was on the PT6.

[gregsundt]

Rudolf Meinl. Old school, but still one of the best.

[bort]

My opinion -- 5/4 tubas are weird and don't "go well" with other CC tubas.

This is a little puzzling to me. Can you say more on this Bort? I played in a section of all CCs that included 3/4, 4/4, and a 5/4 without things not going well, but perhaps I was insensitive to the suffering of my section since I was on the PT6.

Not what I meant, but I see how it sounds like that... whoops! I think a 5/4 CC tuba clearly works just fine in a section with any other tuba in any other key.

I just meant that if I was going to own more than one CC tuba, I wouldn't want one of them to be a 5/4. I think the differences between 5/4 and 4/4, and 5/4 and 6/4 are not extreme enough to warrant having a whole separate horn. Perhaps if the 4/4 was small-ish and the 5/4 was big-ish (186 and PT6), then it could make sense. But if the idea were to have an 52J style horn and a PT6, I think it'd be better off to find something more in the middle than to have (and learn to play) two separate tubas on either side of that.

[Wyvern]

Make sure you test play the new Wessex TC590 Wyvern at ITEC before deciding...

We had a UK professional do a back-to-back comparison with his PT-6 last week and the Wyvern came out tops!

[bort]

Make sure you test play the new Wessex TC590 Wyvern at ITEC before deciding...

We had a UK professional do a back-to-back comparison with his PT-6 last week and the Wyvern came out tops!

[Michael Bush]

Make sure you test play the new Wessex TC590 Wyvern at ITEC before deciding...

We had a UK professional do a back-to-back comparison with his PT-6 last week and the Wyvern came out tops!

Do you think of the Wyvern as a 5/4, Jonathan? Granted that these designations are not far from arbitrary, but it felt quite similar in size to my 4/4 Hirsbrunner, I thought.

[TubaZac2012]

Shouldn't have sold that Willson. I'm only half joking there, because for whatever reason, they are unpopular these days and some have sold recently at extremely low prices. A new Wisemann would have cost you more.

My opinion -- 5/4 tubas are weird and don't "go well" with other CC tubas.I think 4/4 and 6/4 makes sense, as does only 4/4 or only 5/4... but 5/4 plus another CC tuba just seems like too much overlap. I guess you could get a 3/4 CC tuba with a 5/4, but come on, get real -- there aren't any 3/4 CC tubas.

I would get a 6/4, but prodomintly winning a job is easier to do on a smaller horn. I'd love to have a 6/4, but that's after I either have a teaching or playing gig full time. The Wiseman is a really good example of the ideal 5/4 horn. To me anyway. Plus if I was to buy a 6/4 I would wanna spend A LOT more than on a Wiseman. A 6/4 is in the future, but not right now.

Thanks for the suggestions so far,
Zac

[Wyvern]

Make sure you test play the new Wessex TC590 Wyvern at ITEC before deciding...

We had a UK professional do a back-to-back comparison with his PT-6 last week and the Wyvern came out tops!

Do you think of the Wyvern as a 5/4, Jonathan? Granted that these designations are not far from arbitrary, but it felt quite similar in size to my 4/4 Hirsbrunner, I thought.

If a Miraphone 1291 or Meinl-Weston 2000 are 5/4 as both companies designate, then the Wyvern is 5/4, as it is of similar size.

[EdwardTomic]

Not extremely cost effective, but you should try out a Kanstul 5/4. They put out a big and dark 6/4 sound and are remarkably versatile.

[Jerryleejr]

Make sure you test play the new Wessex TC590 Wyvern at ITEC before deciding...

We had a UK professional do a back-to-back comparison with his PT-6 last week and the Wyvern came out tops!

Of COURSE that was a crummy commercial. You wouldn't exPECT Neptune to opportunistically jump in on this thread just to say that "Wyvern" sucked.

I think I just shot milk out my nose

JJ

[bort]

I would get a 6/4, but prodomintly winning a job is easier to do on a smaller horn. I'd love to have a 6/4, but that's after I either have a teaching or playing gig full time. The Wiseman is a really good example of the ideal 5/4 horn. To me anyway. Plus if I was to buy a 6/4 I would wanna spend A LOT more than on a Wiseman. A 6/4 is in the future, but not right now.

Thanks for the suggestions so far,
Zac

Got it! Well, in my experience chasing down 5/4 horns, I think I've finally found home in my rotary Willson. Best overall combination of size and sound that I have found. I haven't played it side by side with a Thor, Tuono, or PT6, but my memory of those tubas is that while they are clearly nice horns,nothing made me want to take one home.

In terms of what is or isn't a 5/4, I think of it as just a "bigger" horn than normal (on a scale of big, bigger, biggest). In my book, there aren't really a ton of true 5/4 tubas, just a lot of big 4/4 horns.

Someone else mentioned Kanstul, and I would be curious about that as well. They seem almost nonexistent, so finding a used one is unlikely. But worth testing.

[bort]

My friend is selling a Miraphone 1291 CC on here. A 1291 plays plenty big (I've never been asked for more sound even on the loudest orchestral pieces) and plays a lot of other things well.

Horns do not win a job....

Can't disagree with any of that!

My opinions:
-- If I had a good 4/4 tuba already, I think a 1291 would be too similar.
-- I like the 1291 a LOT, but I don't consider it a 5/4 tuba.
-- It doesn't matter whether or not it's a 5/4 tuba.

Again, my main thought:
If I could justify having two tubas, as a 5/4 CC owner, I highly doubt that a 4/4 CC would be the next horn I seek out.

[bort]

Back on topic...

Zac, I forgot to ask, are you okay with rotors, or only pistons?

If you're okay with rotors, something like an Alexander 163 would give you a good bit of heft, and would also give you a "more different" (i.e., differenter) type of sound than you can get with your 4/4. Just a thought.

[TubaZac2012]

Back on topic...

Zac, I forgot to ask, are you okay with rotors, or only pistons?

If you're okay with rotors, something like an Alexander 163 would give you a good bit of heft, and would also give you a "more different" (i.e., differenter) type of sound than you can get with your 4/4. Just a thought.

Not a rotor guy. Don't like them much at all. I owned one and played one in high school before I got my 1291. I won't be getting something with rotors, and I will not be getting another 1291. Just a preference thing. I don't want anything that I've owned before, because I got rid of it for a reason. if that all makes sense.

[bort]

if that all makes sense.

Sure does. That said, every few years, I think we owe it to ourselves to refresh our memory. Our playing abilities, attitudes, and preferences change over time... and it's not impossible that something we used to like is actually now quite appealing.

So, no 1291, no rotors, no Willson.

[happyroman]

Rudolf Meinl. Old school, but still one of the best.

While I agree whole heartedly that the Rudys are great, and I have played one exclusively since 1978, their 5/4 is really a 6/4 by any other manufacturer's definition. That said, their 4/4 (which would correspond to the size the OP was asking about), never seemed to catch on as well as their 3/4 and 5/4.

[jeopardymaster]

So, no rotary horns need apply. Yeah, right. Sorry. I didn't see that in the original post. Well, that certainly makes it "easier." What are the best beaches in the US? Oh - sorry, no, Destin doesn't count - I was only thinking about beaches on Puget Sound. Most beautiful woman? Oh, wait -- no blondes. When I started trying to find sounds to emulate, I was immediately drawn to folks like Bishop, Schmitz, Thornton (Alex 163). Oops -- can't count them because they all played rotary horns. Giving up on half the universe is odd. But giving up on THAT half is utterly mystifying.