Mystery sousaphone

[greenbean]

A friend of mine alerted me to this wall-hanging sousaphone about an hour from my house.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/w ... NAYl7xryVw" target="_blank" target="_blank

Anyone recognize it?... Thanks in advance.

[imperialbari]

I don’t know all Czech sousaphone models ever made, but this one doesn’t look like a typical one.

As mentioned in a recent thread on the original sousaphone made by Pepper that instrument has a valve block based on a block designed for top action tubas, only that the knuckles don’t point downwards. And the 3rd valve tubing takes a detour around the block to make room for the tubing inside the main circle without folding it as typically seen on sousaphones by Conn and by many other American makers.

The photo of the sousaphone object of the present thread is very insufficient, but it reveals that it is a very small bore BBb sousaphone of a typically American wrap, where the exit and reentry ports of valve #1 are on opposite sides of the valve casing. Same goes for valve #3.

No European makers that I have seen documented use this type of sousaphone wrap, but for one, Böhm & Meinl (now Nirschl), who started using the American style of wrapping, when they made the York Master series.

I cannot tell the maker of this present sousaphone. Hardly Barcone who made very small bore sousaphones, but the features don’t really fit.

Klaus

[greenbean]

Thanks to you both.

I think I may have "lost" some of the photos. There should be five.

https://picasaweb.google.com/1103963392 ... q9jsmoC_eg" target="_blank

Note that the last photos shows.. a bit of some engraving.. if you zoom in..

[Ace]

What's the mystery? One of the photos shows a tag on the instrument---------it's a "Sousa French horn".

Ace

[bort]

What's the mystery? One of the photos shows a tag on the instrument---------it's a "Sousa French horn".

Ace

HA!

[imperialbari]

The photos are taken more for demonstrating defects of the instrument than for ID-ing it.

I can’t see any engraving, so it would be helpful, if one of those who can would tell a sequence of letters or describe a pattern.

To me the valves look cheap, and the bore looks like a student model. Combined with the bad state of the instrument my conclusion would be that it is not worth buying and repairing to be fit for playing.

Klaus

[windshieldbug]

What's the mystery? One of the photos shows a tag on the instrument---------it's a "Sousa French horn".

Not only that, but it's an "old" one.
The new ones are much better!

[greenbean]

Mystery solved: It is junk. The engraving is "U.S.A." surrounded by a shield. Sheesh - what a great idea. No other markings. Appears to be a small-ish student horn that needs lots of work to be playable. It makes a nice decorative piece though. Thanks for the help.

[imperialbari]

Irony is that the engraving of U.S.A. does not tell that it is American made.

I would have liked to know the real maker, because there still is the discrepancy between the American style wrap and the cheap Czech look.

US custom rules have caused funny constellations of production outside and inside the US.

Before WWII fully assembled import instruments were taxed much higher than the same instruments imported as parts. Leading Conn and possibly others to assemble especially rotary valve French horns from German made parts and then stamp them as US made.

For a period 25 or so years ago Yamaha had a US plant, where student instruments
were assembled from Asian made parts. Trumpet bells arrived straight and were bent at that plant. They froze the bells filled with water to which a detergent had been added. First time I heard about that alternative to bending by lead or by hydraulics.
The US-portion of the production costs were said to be 70%.

Also funny results in other countries. The widespread post-WWII use of the Eb tuba in UK symphonies was a matter of import restrictions.

After WWII amateurs in my country played on prewar Danish made instruments, and then instruments from GDR, Czechoslovakia, the Netherlands, France, and the UK before Yamaha arrived around 1970. Back then I went directly from old Danish to Dutch. The introduction of the British bass band style in Denmark was lead by the youth organization I belonged to, but they weren’t the first. There had been a scout band buying a full set of Czech cornets and top valved conicals. Only that band folded very soon because their instruments broke apart.

Klaus

[tubasaz]

Bell tubing and valve casings look like it could be manufactured by Bohland&Fuchs in Kraslitze, Czech.

[windshieldbug]

The engraving is "U.S.A." surrounded by a shield.

That was a York student model while Carl Fischer Musical Instruments owned them (1941-1970).

[imperialbari]

Carl Fischer also was behind Böhm & Meinl making the York Master sousaphones with an American wrap. So they maybe were the contractor behind Czech sousaphones likewise with an American wrap.

The privately owned Bohemian wind instrument makers were forced into the state owned conglomerate Amati from around 1947. The only original brand to be continued was Cerveny. Other brands like Bohland & Fuchs have surfaced occassionally.

I don’t know when the Graslitz production plants were merged, but it very well could be that the CF U.S.A sousaphones were made in the original Bohland & Fuchs workshop.

Still speculation, but this could explain at least 3 different observations in this thread.

Klaus

[Lee Stofer]

I do believe the instrument to be a Boehm & Meinl BB sousaphone. Check the bore size. I did a play-condition restoration on one of these last summer. I did not think much of it when it showed up, just looked initially like a 2nd-rate instrument, but then found, to my amazement, that this smallish instrument had a .750" valveset bore. When I took it out and performed on it, the instrument had a dark core and a lot of projection. Because of the large-bore valveset, it took quite a bit of air to fill up. And, it was marked with the same engraving as this instrument. It is a German-made copy of a standard York sousa (sort-of), with a larger-bore valveset.

[imperialbari]

image.jpeg

Should have come to my mind, but didn’t due to the very cheap looks of the sousaphone object of this thread:

Böhm & Meinl made a small York Master BBb sousaphone (plus a bigger one). Both versions are represented in my gallery. Search term in the index: York Master BBb

If all parts are there and if the valves are not beyond rescue, then this instruments may be worth a repair.

Klaus