Kantsul grand orchestral Bb 5/4 vs Miraphone 191

[Tubaman4]

Hello everyone,

I am a college student (music ed major) looking for a Bb tuba that is versatile and has a great dark sound. I've played the miraphone 186 but I am hoping to upgrade to something better with less barkey sound.

I'm interested in getting either of these horns but I want to see the pros and cons of both. There is alot of information on the 191 but I barely see any information on the B flat version of Kantsul grand orchestral 5/4 horn. Ive heard someone play the CC version and its beautiful. Can someone please shine some light on this horn so I can make more of an educated decision on which of the two horns I should get.

I appreciate all the help I can get, thank you!

[J.Harris]

The BBflat 1291 is also a great horn. And it's available with 5 valves.

[Donn]

You expect to buy new? Where would you get these tubas from? You need to decide that, then go there, and try them. For example, maybe if it's common to go directly to Kanstul and you don't have to pay a list price surcharge, then check to see if the other tubas are available to try at one of the Hornguys locations, so you can do it all in one trip to southern California. No one can really steer you to the right $10,000 tuba over the internet. If you can't try them, pick one at random, I'm sure it will be fine.

[Tubaman4]

I am planning on buying from woodwind and brass wind which offer financing. I know it all depends on me playing the horn but I would like to hear some comments and experiences in these horn. I know more about the 191 but I would like to see if anyone has played on a kantsul b flat to see if it's just as the same quality as the cc. Is it almost Thor like?

[Jerryleejr]

If it's between those two, I'd err on the side of the 191/1291 rotor vs piston... Not knocking kanstul but the miraphone has a proven track record.

JJ

[Tubaman4]

If anyone has any recommendation on top b flat horns please let me know. Thanks you for your input.

[Ken Crawford]

If anyone has any recommendation on top b flat horns please let me know. Thanks you for your input.

I would HIGHLY recommend you consider a B&S GR55. Absolutely great tubas. I know you're shopping WWBW but I know custom music sells them for less. And custom sells it as the PT-600, exact same horn.

[bort]

I'm curious to know more about the Kanstul. The only time I've heard one is in a crappy Youtube video posted by, of all sources, Kanstul.

Beyond that, the 191 is an excellent tuba, and both instruments are very different styles.

Better advice -- buy one of TubaTinker's Marzan BBb's for $3500, get a grew horn, and save a shitload of money.

[Ferguson]

I am planning on buying from woodwind and brass wind which offer financing.

Most music dealers offer financing. WWBW is just a Guitar Center warehouse in KS, so there's not much there, there.
-F

[Jerryleejr]

I haven't played it, but I've heard good things about the BMB 6/4 BBb (J-765). It's worth a test drive if you can get access to one.

I've played it and for the money you can't beat it if your wanting a new 6/4.

JJ

[EdFirth]

I tuba sat a Kanstul 5/4 Bb for about a month a few years ago and played on it a lot out of curiousity.To put it in perspective I've played on 24/25J's, York Masters, Cerveny Kaisers, a 1923 6/4 four valve Holton( like Jake's York but in Bb), 5/4 Rudy,and some I'm probably forgetting. I played all of these on jobs. The Kanstul horn was just not that special. The sound wasn't anything to write home about and it was top heavy. The first big loop after the valves is towards the top of the horn. The pitch was OK but it was just uncomfortable to hold. My friend who owned it played it in a stand so it wasn't an issue for him. It was extremely well constructed. If you've ever played on or seen the old Reynolds big tubas with the skyscraper bells this reminds me of those in that it plays well (not as well as the Reynolds) but isn't holder friendly. This is, of course, just my take but I would go for Dan's(Tuba Tinker) Marzan as they are decendants of York Master and Grand Rapids York tubas and lots cheaper. Best of luck, Ed

[bort]

Thanks Ed -- very helpful (if disappointing) to know!

[Lee Stofer]

I have very limited experience with the Kanstul Grand 5/4 BBb, and the one that I actually played was not as good an instrument as the 5/4 CC. Kanstul took the 900/4B, a tuba designed using Martin Mammoth tapers (including a smaller Martin valve bore), added the York-metal bell, a leadpipe of CSO York #1 taper, a .750" piston valveset and a 5th rotor. I'm thinking that the large bore leadpipe and valves were not the best option for this instrument, although the Grand CC is a fabulous instrument that I'd put up against any PT-6 or any such instrument.

If you can find a Kanstul 900/4B, it is like buying a new Martin Mammoth that, if anything, plays a little better in tune than the original. I could probably order a new one for you at a good price, as the last time I checked, they were priced closer to the price of a BMB BBb. I owned and played a 900/4B back when I was in Atlanta and used it for a number of gigs. You'll not find a more agile, sweet-playing 6/44 BBb than the Kanstul 900/4B.

[Billy M.]

I owned and played a 900/4B back when I was in Atlanta and used it for a number of gigs. You'll not find a more agile, sweet-playing 6/44 BBb than the Kanstul 900/4B.

If that's the same horn I tried those many years ago at SERTEC in '04 at UGA, I can vouch for it being a MIGHTY FINE player. My pistons on my Miraphone are very good (Lee, you always do great work!), but those pistons were the best I've EVER played and the sound was phenomenal!

[Tubaman4]

Thank you everyone for your input, thanks to all the wonderful replies I have learned about more great tubas. My ears got some interest on the kantsul 33-s but I don't know if the one I heard was the CC version in the video. I want to avoid 6/4, I think they are to huge for what I'm going to play as an Ed major. Can anyone let me know how the B flat kantsul 33-s plays? Is the CC better or the B flat is just as good?